Saison and Stone and Wood PA clone in one brew?

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contrarian

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Have been planning 2 brews, on pacific ale clone and one Saison based on Tony's Bullshead Summer Saison. While researching this I noticed that the grain bills are fairly similar, in the ball park of 60% pils 40% wheat and similar IBUs are targetted of around 20-25IBU.

I no chill so was pondering this morning whether instead of doing these as seperate brews whether I could do a combined boil using a small bittering addition of around 5-10IBUs with a fairly neutral hop (I have some magnum which fits the bill) and then cube hop the pacific ale cube with galaxy flowers and the saison cube with something different, possibly challenger.

I have some white labs california ale yeast or S-05 which would work for the PA clone and some Wyeast farmhouse ale I was planning on using for the saison so obviously they will require vastly different fermentation temperatures but with the mercury rising that shouldn't be an issue with one at ambient and one in the fermenting freezer.

So are there any flaws to this plan or is it the perfect crime?
 
I like where your heads at, 2 birds with one brew :)

The SWPA, its best with just a late addition of the Galaxy, so add you hops right into the cube to get your desired 20ibu. Mash it on the lower end around 64c for 60mins to get a dryer fresher finish ( this will affect your saison so maybe at 66c for a balance between the 2). The SWPA will need to be dry hopped to about 3g/L but for only 4-5days @ 20c then cold crash.

The saison though is a new area for me, it needs a bittering charge, cube hopping that only also will give you a smoother farmhouse ale, well worth exploring a cube hopped only saison.

I have read recently in the Beer & Brewer mag about a funky hopped up Saison using citra late in the kettle and dry hopping it with 100g of Zythos. They did however use Hallatuer at 60m for 30ibu which suits the saison style. If you do decide on a nuetral bittering with magnum run it at 40mins to 10ibu, it will affect the SWPA outcome but you will get a more to style saison.
 
The last SWPA clone I made was probably mashes a bit high and I think a slightly drier finish would work well so was thinking of masing at around 63C, this probably means that the saison will finish very low and have a slightly higher ABV than the SWPA. Have never made a saison before so have a very basic and theoretical understanding of the style but was assuming that the main character would come from the yeast.

I have some Citra in the freezer so that might be a good option for the saison, just need my parcel of galaxy flowers to arrive today and I'll be brewing this tonight. Always try to get a few ferments out of a liquid yeast so will have the chance to brew a few saisons over the summer which should suit the season well both for fermenting and consumption!
 
I have done something similar to this just recently.

Mash was 90/10 pils/wheat -based off mountain goats steam ale.

No kettle additions in main boil. 8 litres in side pot.

Side pot had a 60 min addition of herkules (German high alpha) 17%AA 30ibu for the Saison cube.

Steam ale cube had citra/galaxy to 23 ibu.

Both OG were 1:052
Saison Fg 1:002 belle Saison
Steam ale 1:009 us-05
 
I did something like this too - a hefeweizen and blonde ale.

50/50 pils and wheat, 60 min Hallertauer Mittelfreuh to 14ibu, then split into 2 cubes. I fermented the hefe with yeast 3068, and am drinking it now (Its a winner, and i'm the only one of my mates that likes a here so it's all for me!). I put Galaxy to total 23IBU into the blonde cube, I'm pitching today with US05 and I'm planning on dry hopping with 1g/L galaxy.

I'm going to do this again for sure.
 
If you do the saison on wyeast french saison it will attenuate massively either way.

I would probably suggest 10IBU or so worth of bittering at 60 minutes then cube hope the different beers.

I've done a cube hopped saison with 15-20 IBU worth of a saaz, summer mix. Worked out well.
 
Yeah, I'd even be temped to cube hop the Saison with EKG.
 
Have just mashed this in, aiming for 90 minutes at 63C.

Will use magnum at 60 for 10 IBUs then galaxy flowers in one cube to 25 IBU and citra in the other to 30.

Whatever happens I reckon they will be 2 tasty beers!
 
I have done this sort of brewing plenty of times

for eg, ill triple batch a 50/50 pils/wheat grain bill

add 15 ibu of halertau and after 15 mins boil, take 1 batch out for a berliner weisse
at 90 mins split off a batch as a hefe and throw in some flame out hops for the last batch for a pils

it works.
 
This smelt fantastic going into the cubes last night, can't wait til I have some free fermenter space to get this going!

Just wondering if there is an impact on the final product when cube hopping based on the length of time the beer sits in the cube before being fermented. These will probably be in for a week or so but I know a lot of people have stored hot pack cubes for months, even years so wondering what impact this might have, if any.
 
If your asking about impact on hop flavour it would pretty much be nil.
 
Just saw this contrarian, they'll work fine. 3726 farmhouse ale?.

My cubes regularly sit around for 6-8 weeks before getting fermented, with no Ill effects.
 
Yeah, the 3726 farmhouse ale, I think Sponge used it for his case swap porter and I liked the flavour it gave so thought I would give it a try. Will also reuse for some stout that I have brewed but not got around to fermenting yet and if I like this saison maybe a few more of those.
 
Tahoose said:
If your asking about impact on hop flavour it would pretty much be nil.
Was more thinking about whether long storage would have the potential to impart grassiness or something similar rather than whether the hop flavour would subside over time.
 
contrarian said:
Was more thinking about whether long storage would have the potential to impart grassiness or something similar rather than whether the hop flavour would subside over time.
Ahhh ok. All sounds rather busy brewing wise for you.
 
I have done this with my stone and wood clone. I used us05 for the s&w and belle saison for the saison, i didnt rate the saison to be honest.

I nochill so no need to recalculate if you nochill

my stone and wood is
23L 70% eff

2.8kg pale
1.8kg wheat
.15 crystal
mash @ 67

all galaxy 11.9% pellets
4g @ 60
12g @ 10
8g @ flameout

ferment with us05 @ 17C

20g in the keg

the saison recipe i use (which i'm not sure if i ripped it off from here or is my own creation)

23L 70% eff
wey vienna 3kg
bb wheat 2kg

mash @ 65C

23.23g Cascade nz 9.2% aa pellet @ FWH

ferment @ 27-30C depending on the temps in the garage

Comes out like a super belgian, i rate it highly :)
 
Tahoose said:
Ahhh ok. All sounds rather busy brewing wise for you.
Trying to fill cubes for the festive season and push them through is keeping the brewery busy!

Have never cube hopped before so was more a point of interest than any plans to store long term. Although from time to time a cube sits around for an extended period while other beers take priority in the fermenting fridge!
 
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