Saaz Pellets For Aroma

[vlbaby]

On my mission to brew the perfect pilsner I have struck an unlikely obstacle. I have been mainly bittering with NB hops or even POR, then using saaz pellets for aroma, flavour and even dry hopping. However, all three attempts at this beer, although coming with fairly good results, have an unusual aroma that i would not assiciate with saaz.

The best way i could describe the aroma is grassy, maybe floral, definately not spicy. Nothing at all like the aroma of pilsner urquell or other pilsners i have tried.

Is this because i am using pellets? Is there a better way of acheiving the spicy flavour/aroma of saaz?
Is there any words of wisdom out there?

thanks guys

VL.

 

[wee stu]

My experience, though limited, is that dry hopping with saaz will produce grassy aromas, heavy late additions may also convey similar sensations.

If you are seeking the perfect pilsner, why are you bittering with NB or POR??? If you are looking for an authentic bohemian pils I would have thought saaz all the way would be the answer. Maybe you are missing some of the total saaz hit because of the earlier, non conventional, additions?

 

[Kai]

As far as I'm aware, Saaz carries a good bit of floral aroma. Perhaps the commercial pils you've tried are simply so old the floral aroma is gone and all you're left with is spiciness? Have you tried sending one of yours halfway round the world (or aging it in your shed) to compare?

 

[Barry]

Good Day
My experience has been that dry hopping with Saaz gives very grassy resullts. Stay with late hopping the boil IMHO.
By the way I have never made a Bopil that I have been really happy with so take my advice with a grain of salt (CaCl2?).

 

[Keith the Beer Guy]

VL,

I'm with Wee Stu on using Saaz all the way through.

I have tasted "grassy" pilsners when the hops used have not been fresh or the boil has not been "vigorous".

The best results I have tasted have been obtained by dry hopping Saaz plugs in the rack.

When you use a good whack of saaz I taste more of a fruitiness rather than the spiciness

Good luck,

Keith

 

[pharmaboy]

Good Day
My experience has been that dry hopping with Saaz gives very grassy resullts. Stay with late hopping the boil IMHO.
By the way I have never made a Bopil that I have been really happy with so take my advice with a grain of salt (CaCl2?).

[post="112621"][/post]​

may as well chime in , and agree, grassy, grassy, grassy. Did get a lot better after about 8 months in the bottle though. My guess is that it is too long an exposure (overdone if you will) - the worst one I did was a secondary dry with 3 weeks in secondary - so I've put dry hopping down to more manageable hops, if I ever use saaz again, I'll be taste testing daily, then racking as soon as the aroma is there (hopefully before its grassy)

edit for keith - plugs - now that may be the answer, always used pellets of saaz!

 

[sluggerdog]

I agree with above.

SAAZ seems to always come out grassy for me if I use pellets, so if I want aroma from saaz I always use plugs...

 

[vlbaby]

If you are seeking the perfect pilsner, why are you bittering with NB or POR??? If you are looking for an authentic bohemian pils I would have thought saaz all the way would be the answer. Maybe you are missing some of the total saaz hit because of the earlier, non conventional, additions?

[post="112605"][/post]​

I might take that advice for the next one stu. I always thought that low AA hops were a no no for bittering.
I have done the last 2 pilsners without the dry hopping, but i can sense the exact same aroma ( grassy) as the dry hopped one. Although both of these were added at flame out around 15g.

I agree with above.

SAAZ seems to always come out grassy for me if I use pellets, so if I want aroma from saaz I always use plugs...

[post="112633"][/post]​

I was thinking maybe this might be the case slugger. I may give plugs a try next time. But perhaps my hop schedule is not so good either. What do you think?

23 litre batch

22g NB 9.5% @ 60 min
21g saaz 3.3% @ 30 min
21g saaz 3.3% @ 10 min
21g saaz dry hop @ 2ndry

 

[sluggerdog]

vlbaby, I might suggest if you do not have any plugs try either the following:

22g NB 9.5% @ 60 min
21g saaz 3.3% @ 30 min
21g saaz 3.3% @ 10 min
21g saaz dry hop @ 5 min

Or maybe try mash hopping and skip the last addition, so put your 21 grams or even more into the mash..

 

[vlbaby]

vlbaby, I might suggest if you do not have any plugs try either the following:

22g NB 9.5% @ 60 min
21g saaz 3.3% @ 30 min
21g saaz 3.3% @ 10 min
21g saaz dry hop @ 5 min

Or maybe try mash hopping and skip the last addition, so put your 21 grams or even more into the mash..

[post="112647"][/post]​

Mash hopping eh? I've never heard of it before. is it any good?
What about the use of NB? Do you think i should swap for saaz?

 

[sluggerdog]

Yep, go all saaz..

Mash Hopping: http://www.aussiehomebrewer.com/forum/inde...=mash%20hopping

 

[Malnourished]

I've dry hopped with Saaz pellets and I wouldn't describe my results as grassy, but it certainly doesn't give the same spicy hop aroma as something like Pilsner Urquell.

According to an article in Brewing Techniques the final hop addition in PU is 25 minutes before the end of the boil. The other additions are FWH and 80 minutes.

Personally I can't see myself getting much hop aroma on my system with that kind of hopping schedule, but PU is (was?) renowned for its long, simmering boil. I'm not sure if they've changed the boil as the brewery has become more modernised, but from a conversation I had with a Belgian brewer a while back simmering is a very effective (trust me, I've tasted his beers) means of retaining and integrating aroma into a brew, though in his case we were talking about spices.

I've been thinking about trying something like this myself, but haven't got around to it. It might be what you're looking for.

And like wee stu said, bitter with Saaz too!!

 

[wee stu]

I might take that advice for the next one stu. I always thought that low AA hops were a no no for bittering.

Not so, but, because they are low AA they are less economical, as you need a lot more of them.

Using pellets can have a downside in blocking up your pick up tube, and you have to expect to lose more wort absorbed in the significantly larger trub. On this I speak from experience of my first bo pils attempt using 2.4% AA saaz plugs h34r: .

Not tried it myself, but I understand some of these issues can be lessened by running the pellets through a spice/coffee grinder before use

 

[pint of lager]

I have never had a grassy pilsner, but I don't dry hop and also use the lower AA rated Saaz from Europe front to back in the brew.

That means I use it for bittering (often 30% as a FWH addition) as well as flavour and aroma additions. The bittering of a 40 IBU brew is sooooo smooth.

Any of the lower (2-4%) alpha rated noble hops (such as Hallertau, Tettnanger and Saaz) really suit this hopping regime.

If you buy your hops in small amounts, it becomes very expensive to use the lower alpha rated hops, and people shy away from front to back hopping and use some of the cheaper higher alpha hops to bitter. This makes for a much harsher character and the brew looses out overall. It is when you buy your hops in bulk that you can afford to lash out and use the lower rated hops.

Yes, there is more wort wasted due to hop sludge when using pellets, just brew a slightly larger brew to take into account this loss.

A really nice pilsner is 100% pilsner grain and 100% Saaz hops. 40 IBU, og 1.050. Use your best lager yeast and your best brewing techniques on it.

Or add 10-20% Vienna, mmmm, love Vienna. Or add 10-20% Munich. Or add 10% wheat. Or use Hallertau. Tettnanger is also a great hop to use front to back, is a favourite hopping schedule. OK, that is about 10 different recipes.