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sponge

Dungeon O' Sponge Brewery
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Hey all,

Just looking at brewing a couple of English beers with a pack of S04 that I've had in the fridge for a while and just after a little critique as I predominantly brew APA's

#1 ESB

92% MO
5% caramalt (also have some med crystal)
2% amber (as I've only got a little left and will just be using it up before a BB)
1% choc

1.050

Styrians to 35IBU


#2 Porter

85% GP
5% caramalt/crystal
5% choc
4% carafa spec 1
1% midnight wheat

1.055

EKG to 40IBU


Any feedback would be greatly appreciated.


Cheers,

Sponge
 

manticle

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While I could tweak away for personal preference both look OK. I've never used midnight wheat and wouldn't think of using wheat in a porter but that doesn't mean there's anything wrong with you trying it out, especially at such small amounts.

Don't look past getting some of the Styrian IBU from a flavour addition. Lovely hop.

Brew these then brew again but use a sweet lovely Wyeast liquid british strain and see the difference (1469 and styrians/esb or 1028 and 1099 in the porter). Then brew the esb again and use heritage crystal in place of the caramalt or medium.

You could do a million things differently but I can't see anything nastily wrong (although I'd prefer my porter 30-35 and my ESB to be 40 IBU).
 

sponge

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Cheers for the response Manticle.

The IBU's were one thing I was tossing around a bit, and will probably do as you suggested. Should I leave the OG's the same for both?

I'd normally be getting onto some liquid yeast (and still very well may do that) as the S04 is a little sub-par, but as it's more just to use it up, I was probably going to stick with it.

As for the hopping, i was going to go with a mainly cube hopped ESB as I've never used styrians before and only hear good things about them so was going to do that to get a pretty good idea of the flavour and aroma of them.

With the porter it'll probably be mostly an FWH addition, with a little thrown into the cube.

Heritage crystal would definitely have been used as I'm getting a quarter sack of it in a BB but ive only got the med and cara on hand atm.

Might even leave the midnight wheat out, it was more to help the roasty flavour along without the bitterness of roast barley as I've got a bit of that on hand as well. Might just up the spec 1 instead...

Cheers heaps,

Sponge
 

mxd

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your porter looks/feels (to me) a little high on the IBU's
 

manticle

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Cheers for the response Manticle.

The IBU's were one thing I was tossing around a bit, and will probably do as you suggested. Should I leave the OG's the same for both?

I'd normally be getting onto some liquid yeast (and still very well may do that) as the S04 is a little sub-par, but as it's more just to use it up, I was probably going to stick with it.

As for the hopping, i was going to go with a mainly cube hopped ESB as I've never used styrians before and only hear good things about them so was going to do that to get a pretty good idea of the flavour and aroma of them.

With the porter it'll probably be mostly an FWH addition, with a little thrown into the cube.

Heritage crystal would definitely have been used as I'm getting a quarter sack of it in a BB but ive only got the med and cara on hand atm.

Might even leave the midnight wheat out, it was more to help the roasty flavour along without the bitterness of roast barley as I've got a bit of that on hand as well. Might just up the spec 1 instead...

Cheers heaps,

Sponge
Gravities are fine if you were to swap the IBUs around. I make my bitters between 1040 and 1055 and between 35 and 50 IBU. Porter is between 1050 and 1065 and usually 30-35 IBU with no real need for late hopping (don't pick much of it up). For styrians, I'd still look at at least a 10 minute addition (and I'm talking no chill, with no adjustment - just 10 mins as 10 mins) but they work anywhere - bittering, flavour, aroma and even dry.

A lot of people say roast barley and black malt have no place in a porter but I think that's bollocks.

It's about balancing the ingredients and not using with a heavy hand. I use both black and rb in my porters. I hate quoting the bjcp at anyone since it's hardly the be all and end all of making good beer but since they seem to have invented a few styles of their own (including robust porter) then even their guidelines suggest some black and roast is OK as long as it's not excessive (then it's a stout).

For me, I think about the flavours I want in the final product.

For esb, that's biscuity, nutty and a slight caramel with a lingering bitterness so I use MO, biscuit or victory and a good crystal. Hop accordingly with nice UK appropriate hops - favourites being challenger, EKG and Styrian.

For Porter that's nuts, chocolate, coffee, toast and biscuity so I use MO, biscuit/victory, chocolate and a teeny bit of crystal, RB and black. It's a long way from getting confused with a stout.

I also cold steep my dark grains overnight and add to the last 10 minutes of the mash so there's no evidence of overly roasty, inappropriate ashy type flavours in the final product.
 

sponge

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Completely agree. Guidelines are there for people to enter beers into comps within specs, not just to satisfy the old palate and produce a good beer.

Ive used RB in my porters before and really enjoy it. I just had some spec 1 on hand as well and heard people saying that RB and black should be left out of a porter so I thought I'd give it a go with the spec.

I'd normally be throwing some biscuit/victory in both but dont have any atm and won't til the BB comes in so I'm just using up some stocks of what I have on hand atm. I was using the amber to add a little toffee sweetness although it wont have that nice nutty taste of the biscuit. Might throw a bit of munich/vienna in place of some MO/GP to add some malt complexity due to the lack of the others.

And ill take both the comments on IBU on board and make the ESB 1.050/40IBU and porter 1.055/35IBU.

Also, I think I might just grab a liquid yeast for both of these (re-use a cup of the yeast slurry). I was thinking of 1469, but wasn't sure how it would go in the porter. Would the 1275 or 1335 or something similar work better for both of them?

Cheers heaps,

Sponge
 

manticle

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I made one of my recent stouts or porters with 1275 9top of my head, I can't remember) and it worked well. Can't comment on the 1335.
 

sponge

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Little update. Brewed the ESB a couple of weeks ago and all went well - hit targets with no problemos.

Just kegged an AAA that was in the fermenting fridge and have got a starter of 005 ready to pitch with the ESB tonight.

Friday or saturday night, ill brew the porter and use some of the 005 slurry for it as well once the ESB has finished.

Looking forward to them


Sponge
 

Bribie G

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I've never used S-04 but the Poms seem to be addicted to it on Jim's forum etc. so it must have something going for it. Also I believe it's used by some microbreweries here as their house yeast ( Wig and Pen I seem to remember??)

Might give it a go next time I put in an order to CB. I've been put off dried yeasts since an unfortunate struggle with Windsor last year that cut one of my comp beers off at the knees (just wouldn't clear in the bottle) but I'll try anything once :icon_cheers:
 

sponge

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I ended up going with the 005 just because the english liquid yeasts always seem to work better than the s04, plus i havent used 005 before so was keen to give it a shot.

still got a pack of s04 in my fridge, but the last time i used it the beer turned out quite chemically. (just ask the IBU's involved in the case swap)

still not sure what the chemical taste came from, but thought whilst i was ordering some 008 (west coast ale) yeast, id throw in an 005 as well to use with these recipes.

but as you say bribie, ive had plenty of beers made with s04 that have turned out delicious. ill have to see how the 005 goes and possibly make the ESB again using the s04 to compare


Sponge
 

Tim

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I have what was supposed to be a Newcastle brown (it came out amber, the choc malt was a little paler than normal) clearing at the moment fermented with S04. Tastes pretty good from the fermenter, although has finished a little high. I think S04 is the same as Wyeast 1098 (Whitbread). My beer tastes pretty similar to John Smiths, but with a bolder more flavour.
 

Weizguy

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A former Newcastle brewer Steve (of this forum) used to regularly use the S04 yeast, and got great results with his English bitters and such. He was quite fond of his Bombardier and I liked the peat-smoked ale.

There was a certain house character to the beers, though
 

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