Roasted barley

[Doctormcbrewdle]

Hi. I'm having a go at an Aussie lager (C.U.B, XXXX style flavouresque) without the funk and am reading that roasted barley may be used in production of these types. I'm wondering, having never brewed with this, I do have dark crystal on hand, can I sub this in place of and if so, what percrntage of the grist? I would assume 1% odd just for that little hint of complexity and colour

I'm using 85% pale malt, 1% medium crystal, 14% wheat, pride bittering and 34/70

 

[MHB]

I wouldn't, those commercial megaswill beers are mostly Pale (pilsner) malt and sugar (lots of sugar).
At most a bit of something more for hue correction rather than colour, anything to give a Gold colour rather than piss yellow!
I would use a little of one of the pale crystal malts (CarraHell, BB Caramalt, one of the UK Caramalts).
The defining features of this type of beer is its pale, clear, low flavour (sessionable?) nature.
Try about 65% BB Pale, 30% White Sugar and 5% BB Caramalt (% of extract), big yeast pitch and ferment as cool as you can. Pride isn't a bad choice for bittering (just one addition) and don't get too carried away with the IBU's somewhere south of 20IBU's is going to be right.
Not really a style I want to make, the brewers who turn out this stuff are very good at making something I don't like, but don't underestimate the skill required, and do use twice as much yeast as you thing is sensible!
Mark

 

[shacked]

Yeah I think the grist you are planning will probably land you closer to something like a YH Natural Lager (I think they use a bit of munch too). I wouldn't bother with the RB or dark crystal as it may impact what you are trying to achieve. If anything, maybe a slight touch of vienna malt may help.

The best Aussie lager type beer I made was 90% JW Pils, 10% cane sugar, 10 IBU of something at FWH. Huge pitch of WLP830 (which I believe is close to 34/70) at 10C.

 

[Doctormcbrewdle]

Dang. Already have the grains milled. Though I can always just see how it turns out. I'm pretty sure it'll still be good and go from there

Thanks.

I was just pretty sure a guy here who works at C.U.B mentioned roasted barley in one of the old threads but could be wrong. Definitely know he said "a few diff types of BB malts"

 

[Doctormcbrewdle]

@ MHB may I ask why the overpitch of yeast? Cheers

 

[Doctormcbrewdle]

Yeah I think the grist you are planning will probably land you closer to something like a YH Natural Lager (I think they use a bit of munch too). I wouldn't bother with the RB or dark crystal as it may impact what you are trying to achieve. If anything, maybe a slight touch of vienna malt may help.

The best Aussie lager type beer I made was 90% JW Pils, 10% cane sugar, 10 IBU of something at FWH. Huge pitch of WLP830 (which I believe is close to 34/70) at 10C.

I made a really close YH lager not long ago by going 7% sucrose and pilsner malt. It was scarily close! I'd never had one before that, it came with a Brewbud advent beer calendar the Wife got me and I was suprised at the likeness with the lager I had bottled at the time. I do remember thinking to myself though it seemed the tiniest but lighter than mine though so maybe more simple sugar

 

[Doctormcbrewdle]

https://www.victoriabitter.com.au/the-brew

Not worth much but it's something

 

[shacked]

I made a really close YH lager not long ago by going 7% sucrose and pilsner malt. It was scarily close! I'd never had one before that, it came with a Brewbud advent beer calendar the Wife got me and I was suprised at the likeness with the lager I had bottled at the time. I do remember thinking to myself though it seemed the tiniest but lighter than mine though so maybe more simple sugar

Interesting that it was so close! The website lists pale, pilsner, wheat and munich as the malts! https://www.younghenrys.com/natural-lager

 

[Doctormcbrewdle]

Maybe I have bad buds but yea it was damn close!

 

[MHB]

@ MHB may I ask why the overpitch of yeast? Cheers

The commercial versions are mostly brewed "over gravity" and quite cold to supress ester production. From a commercial POV getting the beer out as fast as they can if a high priority so lots of yeast.
In part accounts for the Sulphury note and very bland nature of the beer. Not sure how much over gravity brewing affects the flavour but that to will have an impact.
Mark

 

[Doctormcbrewdle]

I have heard they ferment warm in the past but in saying that I've also done experiments with 34/70 and can't pick a difference with a pilsner recipe fermented at 13 or 20 whatsoever

 

[Doctormcbrewdle]

Just bought a stubbie of Carlton Draught. I find it actually quite difficult to believe there's any sucrose at all here. I know it's common talk that we hear all the time but it has a full malt finish. Actually better than I remember and stubbies are probably a good comparison since I bottle. Actually think I'm getting hints of wheat so see how this attempt in fv goes shortly. Colour is reminiscent of my pale ales with 5% cara or so and 34/70 seems a perfect fit for yeast to me. They may have a house strain but lets face it: How many lager yeasts were readily available here in the 50's? It's not hard to create yout own strain from it

 

[Doctormcbrewdle]

Chasing it down with my latest 100% Weyermann pilsner malt/Hallertau 34/70. It runs rings around the C.U.B with it's brighter 'zing' and aroma but in terms of mouthfeel and lacing they're actually both very similar

 

[Doctormcbrewdle]

Well, here's the wort. Very similar colour so far. 1.045, medium body mash

 

[Doctormcbrewdle]

Well it's been in the bottle a couple weeks now. How's it taste?... bloody good actually! It's scarily similar to CD. Mine is a tadd lower in carb but apart from that I'm not sure you'd tell them apart easily. The CD had a frothier head too but that may just be higher carb

So all in all I think they're trying to steer people off track when saying they use a shedload of sucrose. Sucrose is stuff like Bintang and Corona. Beers with very low body, flavour and of course head retention. I'm a little suprised myself but do yourself a favor. If it's veen a while, pick up a fresh stubbie yourself and throw it in a clean glass. You might be suprised

Cheers

 

[Doctormcbrewdle]

Here's a piccie. Could do with a further 20gms odd dark crystal

 

[Doctormcbrewdle]

Just a quick update: had a (admittedly only) one week old CUB attempt made with Golden Promise instead of BB Ale malt and it really lacks so far.. it's just muddled like it's not quite sure where it's purpose is

Almost want to swap the unopened bag I have here for a BB.. but I'm hoping it comes good (experience has me wary though) slight green tastes still remain so far, so can't comment 100% just yet

This one so far tastes sweeter, not as malty and just doesn't have the CUB nose. It's a bit 'weird' really

Barrett Burston ale malt really has the Australian megaswill lager' completely nailed (as it should). It has such a strong caramel malt background that I'm not sure you'd even find too easy mimicking with spec malts to be honest. Think I'm finally coming around to this one..

As a side note, anyone want to swap a bag of GP..?

 

[Doctormcbrewdle]

Update. turns out I'm just a giant nonga'.

It seems this one has pretty much cleaned up and it's now very hard to distinguish a difference between the two. Actually really like the sweet kind of taste Golden Promise is providing which is seeming to compensate for the caramelly type flavour BB ale malt is giving. They're actually way more similar than first thought.. but knowing they both share the same ebc kilning we can probably expect that

Glad I didn't swap that other bag now..

 

[DrJez]

I can vouche for a similar finding with C.U.B style lagers

After fine tuning have settled on 90% 6ebc base malt, 9% sugar or hell wheat and the last 1 odd % dark roast. Carafa, roast barley, dark crystal, whatever

I can't taste a difference between one bought from the shop. Bittering matters little. Warrior, Cascade, POR, you can never taste that little ibu of a 60min addition.

I lager at 20 odd degrees for a quick grain to glass quaffer. Unbeatable

My favorite base for this particular style has to be Thomas Fawcett's - Golden Promise. It just has a slightly easier drinking quality over BB or MO but still retains some quality, unlike a certain US 2-row.

 

[GalBrew]

You’d be the first person in history that wanted to swap a bag of GP for BB ale. Glad you have reconsidered.