Rice Malt

[Paddy Melon]

Hi All, I was wondering if anyone has tried using Rice Malt Syrup as an adjunct to their brew. If so, what are your thoughts on its value.
I have a friend who drinks Asahi and likes what I have been brewing so I thought I might give rice malt a try to see if it gets closer to the Asahi. But then I thought I'd ask here first.
Thanks M

 

[Nick the Knife]

I've never used it - but have seen it spoken about very positively in discussions on lagers, pilseners etc. Is apparently very heavily used by most brewers in Asia, so I think it's a very safe product to use for those style of beers.

If you've got an asian grocery store nearby is worth checking them out for it as when I lived in Sydney they stocked it and was quite a bit cheaper than any other source.

 

[Paddy Melon]

Thanks NtK, Coles Has it for $3.20 for 500grms But I'll give the local emporium a look.
M

 

[yankinoz]

I have tried it. The added flavour is mild, definitely less than that from malt extract. Adding one jar to a 20L batch you might notice the effect in a pilsner or cream ale, but don't expect a large difference from just using glucose as an adjunct.

 

[Paddy Melon]

I have tried it. The added flavour is mild, definitely less than that from malt extract. Adding one jar to a 20L batch you might notice the effect in a pilsner or cream ale, but don't expect a large difference from just using glucose as an adjunct.

I'm really pleased that it might add something different hopefully a "dryness" like the Asahi. Thanks Y.
M

 

[WHRALR]

I had a local Sydney brew that used rice mat extract. Nice and dry. Very clean. I would love to find an appropriate recipe. Do it seems a Pilsner can work. (Can we mention brands ie the beer i tried?) wil

 

[philrob]

You can mention the beer. Go right ahead.

 

[WHRALR]

I can OK ! Yulli’s Karaoke Kingu Rice Larger - Alexandria, NSW. Nice dry and clean. great palate clenser. I would love to understand a bit more about the Rice Malt. Wil

 

[An Ankoù]

When I want to make a Japanese dry lager, I use flaked rice, which I believe is gelatinised and rolled rice. I've never come across rice malt. Also, Asahi and the other big brand of "superdry" whose name escapes me, are both made under licence either here in France or in Germany and they're not very dry at all- in fact they're Shi'ite! I followed Greg Hughes' recipe and it's a very decent drink.

I think it's Kirin.

 

[Paddy Melon]

When I want to make a Japanese dry lager, I use flaked rice, which I believe is gelatinised and rolled rice. I've never come across rice malt. Also, Asahi and the other big brand of "superdry" whose name escapes me, are both made under licence either here in France or in Germany and they're not very dry at all- in fact they're Shi'ite! I followed Greg Hughes' recipe and it's a very decent drink.

I think it's Kirin.

Hi An A, how do you use the flaked rice? Quantity? do you add it straight to the fermenter or do you mash it into a wort?
The pure rice malt syrup seems pretty cheap though.

 

[Paddy Melon]

I have tried it. The added flavour is mild, definitely less than that from malt extract. Adding one jar to a 20L batch you might notice the effect in a pilsner or cream ale, but don't expect a large difference from just using glucose as an adjunct.

Hey Y, how much did you use? would 500grams in a 23 litre batch be enough or should I go for 1kg? I'm not really sure what I am expecting?

 

[yankinoz]

"Rice malt syrup" is actually a misnomer. The starch in rice is converted to sugars -- mostly glucose -- by using enzymes. Actually malting rice is considered innovative: https://pubs.acs.org/doi/10.1021/jf501462a. I suspect going that route would give a more flavourful product.

How much to use? If the rest of the fermentables comprise all malts, you're going to dilute flavour. One kg would put your brew in about the same territory as many macrobrews that use sugar adjuncts, though the syrup would provide a bit more flavour. You might try a kilo as an experiment to see what happens, but I suspect that if you make the syrup a regular ingredient, you'll stay with 500. I tried it and didn't stay with it, but my tastes run to the malty side.

 

[yankinoz]

I've never used it - but have seen it spoken about very positively in discussions on lagers, pilseners etc. Is apparently very heavily used by most brewers in Asia, so I think it's a very safe product to use for those style of beers.

If you've got an asian grocery store nearby is worth checking them out for it as when I lived in Sydney they stocked it and was quite a bit cheaper than any other source.

It's basically a shortcut to using rice as an adjunct, but starch conversion is done outside the mashing process (not by malting). If one likes the likes of Asahi or Budweiser, the syrup saves trouble and adds cost.

 

[An Ankoù]

Hi An A, how do you use the flaked rice? Quantity? do you add it straight to the fermenter or do you mash it into a wort?
The pure rice malt syrup seems pretty cheap though.

Ah, I didn't realise it was a syrup. I put mine in the mash with the grains. I'll look up and post the recipe later on.
I don't think the syrup is easily (or cheaply) available this side of the ocean.

 

[An Ankoù]

Here's the recipe:
Japanese Rice Lager
23 litres
abv 5.5%
OG 1052
FG 1013 (mine came out quite a bit lower than that, which is good since it's supposed to be dry)
25 IBUs

4.7 Kg pilsner malt
500 g flaked rice
Mash at 65C for an hour (I mashed at 64C for a couple of hours)
Sorachi Ace to 21 IBUs at start of boil
Sorachi Ace 5g last 15 minutes with protofloc
Saaz 5g at flameout.

75 minute boil
Pitch with Czech pils yeast and ferment at 12C then condition at 3C (mine got confditioned at around 10-12 C)

Turned out very nice.




and here's the book. Seems a bit pricey on Amazon.au, might be better to look for a second-hand copy on one of the international stores.
https://www.amazon.com.au/Home-Brew...1656920105&sprefix=greg+hughes,aps,392&sr=8-1

 

[Matthopperman]

Can anyone speak to the impact of the kind of rice malt you buy at Coles and how it impacts colour? Obviously if using it for an adjunct in a light lager you don't want it adding too much darker colour, but the syrup you buy at coles is darker than honey. I'm thinking about brewing the 'Typical American Light Lager' from How to Brew, and he uses something called 'Rice Syrup Solids' which looks like a powder you can't buy in Australia, and plus it looks basically white, which is why I'm concerned about this kind of dark syrup:

 

[An Ankoù]

Never heard of it, but after a bit of googling it seems to be just glucose, maltose and a bit of higher sugars. The darkness probably comes from incomplete refining. It's probably not suited to your lager so why not just use flaked rice?

 

[Hangover68]

Never heard of it, but after a bit of googling it seems to be just glucose, maltose and a bit of higher sugars. The darkness probably comes from incomplete refining. It's probably not suited to your lager so why not just use flaked rice?

I just use 1kg of plain white rice cooked and added to the mash with 4kg of pale malt for a light crisp lager.

 

[Matthopperman]

Never heard of it, but after a bit of googling it seems to be just glucose, maltose and a bit of higher sugars. The darkness probably comes from incomplete refining. It's probably not suited to your lager so why not just use flaked rice?

Doesn't that have to be mashed?

 

[bradmcm]

Doesn't that have to be mashed?

Yes. Rice needs to be gelatinised, which happens when you cook it. Then it needs to be mashed to convert the starch to sugars. Flaked rice is gelatinised during it's production, so it just needs to be mashed.
So if you are looking for something that you can just add to the fermenter, then the brown rice syrup will work, I don't know how much flavour will carry over into the beer, probably not a lot but you might get some of it. Googling, I did find something that looks more neutral - Melrose Organic Rice Syrup.

But let's just step back for a second.
You are using sugar syrup that just happens to be made from rice. It is neutral in flavour. The reason why rice is used in Asian and some American breweries is because that is their cheapest/easiest form of carbohydrate to get to make the sugar syrup. In Australia, the cheapest source is sugarcane, which is why Australian breweries use that neutral sugar syrup in their beers.
So if you are just wanting to use a neutral adjunct, it makes far more sense to use dextrose as it is far cheaper than buying jars of clear rice syrup and you won't taste the difference.
If you wanting to use rice because it is fun and a talking point then go for it. I've made a few rice beers but I am an all-grainer and I use boiled home brand rice in my mash tun. Great beers but the rice contributes no flavour and I might as well just add table sugar or dextrose to the boil.

 

[yankinoz]

I used it once. I recall it's made by using enzymes to convert rice, not by malting rice. It imparts more flavor than plain sugar does, but not much more. For the little it offers it's not cost-effective.

 

[Matthopperman]

Yes. Rice needs to be gelatinised, which happens when you cook it. Then it needs to be mashed to convert the starch to sugars. Flaked rice is gelatinised during it's production, so it just needs to be mashed.
So if you are looking for something that you can just add to the fermenter, then the brown rice syrup will work, I don't know how much flavour will carry over into the beer, probably not a lot but you might get some of it. Googling, I did find something that looks more neutral - Melrose Organic Rice Syrup.

But let's just step back for a second.
You are using sugar syrup that just happens to be made from rice. It is neutral in flavour. The reason why rice is used in Asian and some American breweries is because that is their cheapest/easiest form of carbohydrate to get to make the sugar syrup. In Australia, the cheapest source is sugarcane, which is why Australian breweries use that neutral sugar syrup in their beers.
So if you are just wanting to use a neutral adjunct, it makes far more sense to use dextrose as it is far cheaper than buying jars of clear rice syrup and you won't taste the difference.
If you wanting to use rice because it is fun and a talking point then go for it. I've made a few rice beers but I am an all-grainer and I use boiled home brand rice in my mash tun. Great beers but the rice contributes no flavour and I might as well just add table sugar or dextrose to the boil.

I did notice that Melrose stuff having a lighter colour. I think some people have mentioned the maltose rice malt you can buy from Asian grocers.

What you're saying about corn/rice being a cheap adjunct does make sense, but I do want to try brewing an American light lager as true to the recipe I'd like to follow as possible. In the explanation of the recipe in How to Brew, he says:

Rice extract is available in both syrup and powder form, and will produce a beer similar
to Heineken or Budweiser. High maltose corn syrup will produce a beer similar to Miller or Coors.

And so it seems it might lose something just by using table sugar in replicating the style. Issue is that the 'rice syrup solids' he mentioned doesn't seem to be available in Aus, and neither 'High maltose corn syrup'.

 

[yankinoz]

I did notice that Melrose stuff having a lighter colour. I think some people have mentioned the maltose rice malt you can buy from Asian grocers.

What you're saying about corn/rice being a cheap adjunct does make sense, but I do want to try brewing an American light lager as true to the recipe I'd like to follow as possible. In the explanation of the recipe in How to Brew, he says:



And so it seems it might lose something just by using table sugar in replicating the style. Issue is that the 'rice syrup solids' he mentioned doesn't seem to be available in Aus, and neither 'High maltose corn syrup'.

The corn syrup sold in the US is bland, adds little if any of the flavour associated with corn-adjunct lager. High-maltose corn syrup is basically malto-dextrin in solution. No idea what rice syrup solids are.

If you want to replicate US lagers that use corn adjunct, consider a partial mash, malt and flaked corn, in a bag.

Budweiser was always distinctive for the use of rice and for using beechwood shavings in secondary. It is a notoriously hard beer to clone. Budweiser of old was brewed to about 5.8% abv and use Saaz hops for its late additions, so it had some character. It's well below 5% now and at last rumour I heard they were using Willamette, very lightly of course.

Personally, I drank these brews at other people's houses. At home I bought all-malt lagers, of which there were several even before craft brewers came along.

 

[bradmcm]

I hope it all goers well and let us know how you go. Personally if you are super keen to use rice, your next step would be to get some flaked rice and the same amount of crushed lager malt from your homebrew store and do a mini-mash. It's an easy process.