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Reverse Osmoses

Discussion in 'Partial Mash Brewing' started by churchy, 16/2/09.

 

  1. KegLand-com-au

    www.KegLand.com.au - A Land of Stainless Steel AHB Sponsor

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    Posted 24/9/19
    Yes we are getting more advanced brewers that want to have more control. Although the water suppliers generally have data sheets these are often not detailed enough to establish an accurate baseline. So starting with RO and building the water back up might be something we need to assist our customers with a bit more in future.
     
  2. Josh Dodd

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    Posted 24/9/19
    Are PSI a retailer of filter systems or a particular type of system?
    Looks like they're just a seller of various filter systems.
    I did a lot of research, and as long as the system you are buying uses Industry standard filter cartridges, there's not a lot of difference between the various manufacturers. The filter steup itself is pretty standard, and the cartridges are geenrally made to a well regulated standard. Indeed, once you've invested in the basic setup, you can buy your replacement cartridges from anywhere.
    Some of the more expensive systemn include electronic meters and TDS testers and permeate booster pumps and various add-ons. Not sure how many of those would really be necessary in your average system.

    I can see KegLand filling a gap in the market by selling good quality, low-cost systems, just like they do with a lot of their products. They just need to make sure the sales and installatoin process complies with local reg's, and the product they are supplying meets local standards. I'd be interested to see if they can compete with other sellers on the refill cartridges. I did some research and if you buy in bulk (5 or 10 cartridges at a time) then you can save a LOT of money. That's the real cost of a filter system. Espcially the more complex 4, 5 or 6 stage systems - suddenly you have to buy a lot more refills.

    Actually, long term that's probably where the testers and analysis stuff comes in handy. If you have to replace three or four filters at a time, it;s probably good to be able to tell when you actually need to replace and not just when you're "supposed to". May look into picking some up and retrofitting to my system.
     
  3. bbqzookeeper

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    Posted 24/9/19
    Specifically, they have a Chloramine RO Unit for say $280.
    It also includes a gauge, so that would be my preference (as I'm based in Sydney) over your $250 one.
     
  4. KegLand-com-au

    www.KegLand.com.au - A Land of Stainless Steel AHB Sponsor

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    Posted 25/9/19
    If customers are using this for brewing do you think the pressure tank is really necessary? We were thinking if we supplied the system with 3/4thread customers can screw onto the standard garden tap at home then just leave the system running the night before and run the RO water into a bucket/spare fermenter so it's ready for brewing the next day. So not necessarily something that was intended to use for daily drinking water. When the pressure tank is removed the system is half the size. Then for customers who wanted to be a bit more advanced they can use a solenoid valve and a float switch so when the bucket fills up the system turns off.
     
    WEF likes this.
  5. WEF

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    Posted 25/9/19
    Sounds like what i'd do if i had your system...
     
  6. Josh Dodd

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    Posted 26/9/19
    Interesting idea. Flow from an RO on it's own is really slow, so it would take a while. For me, if I'm investing that kind of money in a water filtration system, I'd definitely want to use it for drinking water as well. But obviously others may want different. Options are always good.
    It's not a scenario I personally would probably want but I can definitely see that there'd be plenty of folks who only want it for brewing who'd love that idea. It also neatly avoids any issues around plumbing regulations because it's a temporary hose attachment. Clever.
     
  7. sp0rk

    Mayor of Pooptown

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    Posted 26/9/19
    Interesting that you've dug up this decade old thread when you've just listed an RO system on your site :/
    I'll probably give it a go though, I'm wanting a system and don't need a pressure tank. I'll likely fab up an adjustable height float valve that I can attach to my Guten or my keggle
     
  8. theSeekerr

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    Posted 26/9/19
    If you're targeting "advanced brewers" why is the product description page mostly full of alternative-health woo about drinking water?
     
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  9. Josh Dodd

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    Posted 27/9/19
    I'm assuming the main body text is a cut and paste from another website or from the manufacturer's page or something and potentially is inaccurate

    Looking at the unit listed on KL's site the filter is rated at 50 Gal per day. They've stated in the body text that to be 215 Liters per day... which is odd. If they're talking Imperial Gallons that would be 227 Litres a day. But if it's US Gallons (which seems far more likely) we're talking 189 litres per day.
    Edit: I see under the tech specs at the top they are listing 190L...

    The first works out to a flow of about 157ml per minute.
    The second is 130ml per minute.
    Be good to definitely confirm what the units actual rating is? Traditionally its US gallons NOT Imperial for water filter measurements, so I'm assuming the 190 L is the right number,

    I haven't got into All Grain yet but from what I can see, you need at least 6 Gallons for a 5 Gallon brew?
    That's a little over 3 hours to collect the water for a brew.
    That's not nearly the "leave running overnight" suggested previously, but is still a fairly long time to collect the water.

    A suggestion for KegLand - It might be worth being a little clearer about what the actually expected flow from the unit is? I know I'd be a little surprised to connect one up and get water dripping out at around 2 ml per second.... There's nothing wrong with that, but it's important to properly set peoples expectations.

    On the bright side, the price for refills from KL isn't too bad. About industry-standard in Aus.

    I note that this uses two coconut carbon filters and an RO membrane. There's no micro sediment filter at the start to filter out larger particles and lengthen the life of the carbon filters. However, they are using the preffered carbon block filters which offer better filtration which is good.
    The reason the first filter is rated at 6 months and the second at 12 is that the first cartridge is doing the work of the Micro Particle filter as well, taking out the dirt, silt, and small particles. Traditionally you have a washable Micro Particle filter first. That gets the big junk out, and it can be washed and re-used. That results in your carbon filters lasting longer. This does away with that, resulting in more frequent cartridge replacement. Ironically the build of this unit has more than enough space for a third filter cartridge which could house a particle filter. Ideally, you'd add another cartridge in the middle, move the first carbon block to that and place a sediment filter in the first housing, giving you a four-stage filter that would have a significantly longer lifespan on your carbon filters. In theory, you could probably even do that yourself with off the shelf parts.

    Anyway, long rambling post here (you can tell I did a lot of research into this recently for my own purchase)

    TLDR? It's a decent enough setup that could definitely be improved with an additional filter and one that will have a glacially slow flow, dripping out about 2 mls per second. If you're fine with that flow rate, this seems like a decent option and the price is competitive.
     
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