Reverse Mashing anyone?

[Bribie G]

Has anyone done a reverse mash, starting at around 70 and dropping gradually down to 63-ish?

The idea being to use the alpha amylase to chop the starches into twigs for the beta amylase to convert into maltose. (see Palmer's analogy of chainsaws, shears etc)

I'd expect that a lot of the beta amylase would be denatured initially, but that's what happens in a decoction mash anyway. Maybe add more grain below 68?

There were a few posts about this in 2012 and QldKev said he'd done it but didn't elaborate.

Thinking of trying it with a rice lager.

 

[manticle]

I know Tony Wheeler used to do something along those lines. Would be a matter of getting the timing right. Alpha works quicker but while you optimise it, beta is being denatured.

 

[TheWiggman]

Unique concept, but how would you go about it? For BIAB, no idea (excluding maybe a chill coil). For HERMS, you'd need to configure a cool water source through through HERMS and trickle through slowly.
Would this produce a wort that a typical system couldn't using multi rests?

 

[QldKev]

I have played with it (the reverse mashing), but IMHO it's not worth it for beer. I can't recall what I was trying back in 2012, that wasn't my joke you remember from back then?
"I tried reverse mashing once, I successfully converted my beer into grain..."

I have done it with more corn in the mix to help speed things up. We convert down at 63c to target a low ferment FG. Basically I add the grain at 72c to get a good kick off and break the long branches down. But once the mash had dropped to 63c I add brewers enzymes to finish it off. It just helps speed things along better and ensure a complete conversion.

 

[Ducatiboy stu]

How to reduce mash temp quickly

1. Fill bucket with cold water

2. Pour bucket of cold water into mash until desired temp is reached.

 

[Bribie G]

Missed the joke QldKev

I've done a few sort of reverse mashes, for example mash in at 68 degrees, lag urn then end up having to go into town and get home three hours later when mash has gone down to 63. I'm just thinking of pushing the upper limit.

Alpha amylase does work lightning fast, e.g. just a few seconds when doing a cereal mash.

I'll have a crack tomorrow and report on final lager... it's going to be a lightly hopped rice beer so I'm looking for fermentability and it doesn't need to have much body.

 

[manticle]

What's the potential benefit over stepping up through temp cycles? I know the theory of branch chopping but what are you expecting in the finished beer?

 

[Ducatiboy stu]

Why not split the mash.....

Take out say 1/4 of the grist and mash that at 64*c, mash the rest at 70*c, then drop the temp and add the remaining grist. That way you will have some fresh enzymes

 

[Bribie G]

I'm looking for the clean dryness you get with many megaswills such as Carlton Draught where there's only a hint of body. Even using pilsener style malts etc I always seem to get a more chewy and malty beer.

 

[Ducatiboy stu]

I'm looking for the clean dryness you get with many megaswills such as Carlton Draught where there's only a hint of body. Even using pilsener style malts etc I always seem to get a more chewy and malty beer.

Be cheaper and easier to just buy it. :lol:

 

[manticle]

Mashing low only obviously not giving what you want? How about mashing high but long? Say 70 for 90?

 

[mje1980]

I'm looking for the clean dryness you get with many megaswills such as Carlton Draught where there's only a hint of body. Even using pilsener style malts etc I always seem to get a more chewy and malty beer.

As inspired by yourself, my xxxx gold clone is mashed at 62c for 90 mins ( as well as saisons ), and has about 12% dextrose. I think the gravity has something to do with it as well. Mine is around 1.035 ( haven't got notes with me right now ), which, combined with the long low mash, and Dex, brings the fg down to 1.005.

Anytime I've tried to do a higher og, even 1.040, I find the same, I still have a bit too much body and I don't like it as much. If I make mega swill I want it to slip down with barely a trace of anything other than coldness and crispness.

The gold, however, is crisp clean and it is impossible to have only one glass.

Really need to do another one.

 

[Bribie G]

Damn, picked a bad day to go on the wagon for a week until Grafton :blink:

 

[Danscraftbeer]

Reversed Mashing its called? This is often my usuall procedure in a sense. I mash in a 75lt esky. Sometimes go down the street (shopping, whatever) and drain and sparge up to 3 hours later. Aiming at dry beers the lowest FG I've got is 1.002.
Checking my notes the mash for that beer started at 64.5c and after 150minutes it was 60.5c.
70% Ale Malt
22.4% Wheat Malt
7.6% Munick
OG = 1.040. FG = 1.002. Alc/vol = 5%.
For me that perfectly came together as to plan. Only 6.7kg grain to make 38lt. All grain, no added sugar.
It was an excellent refreshing crisp sessionable megaswiller that anyone could enjoy. :chug:

Starting at a higher temp (eg. 70c) then gradual fall (over 3 hours) to 63c still gets you more body and a higher FG.
As to my notes on a similar PA. OG was 1.046, FG = 1.011. Alc/vol = 4.6%

 

[QldKev]

I'm looking for the clean dryness you get with many megaswills such as Carlton Draught where there's only a hint of body. Even using pilsener style malts etc I always seem to get a more chewy and malty beer.

The only way I get that is actually mashing a little bit high, and then using white sugar.