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Replacing white sugar in an IPA recipe (for BIAB)

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Giddo

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Hi all,

Hoping someone can correct/confirm my thinking is sound.

I brew (BIAB all grain) with a mate, and the next beer on his list is from a British CAMRA book (can't remember the name). The recipe is for a Worthingtons White Shield IPA. Recipe calls for 3.3kg pale malt + 275 g crystal malt + 395 grams white sugar for a 19 litre brew.


It's that last ingredient I'm struggling with. Seems odd to me to add processed sugar to a recipe. Presumably this would be classed as a partial grain brew or something?


I am not massively keen on pouring 800g of refined sugar into the 40 litre brew, so was wondering how straightforward things are in terms of substituting. I am on brew 4 or 5, so still very new to this.

I was thinking of just calculating the proportions of each of the grains (ie 92.3% pale malt + 7.7% crystal malt), and tweaking the amount for the brew length and efficiency etc (something around 2.5 litres per kg of grain).


Would this work? Well? Badly? Is there a better approach? Or should I stop hating the sugar and just go with the recipe?


Thanks in advance,
giddo
 

sp0rk

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Still all grain, It's just being used as an adjunct to raise the alcohol level
 

Nick JD

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Sugar is an impostant ingredient in many of the world's bigger beers.

People who go from K&K brewing tend often to have a hatred of anytghing white and powdery in their beloved ALL GRAIN and miss out on its benefits:

1. Alcohol without body

2. Increasing the OG without increasing colour

3. Reducing the FG while retaining the target alcohol

4. Getting a decent attenuation figure with lazy yeast

5. Accurately cloning commercial beers that use it (lots more that you'd think)
 

brettprevans

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You need to do some home work on ur ingredients. Nothing wrong with sugar in the right recipes, method etc. Belgians use heaps of sugar. Sugar is also used wheb u want some alc but wsnt a drier finish.

Tonnes of info on here about how and why (and when not to) use sugar.

The recipe is fine.

Although playing devils advocate if u want to leave out sugar and increase grains u can. U just wont get the same beer.

Edit. Well and truely beaten
 

Bribie G

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There's a long history of sugar in British Beers:

  • When modern fertilizers came into use in the 19th century, bumper crops of barley were grown but they were high protein and they were getting hazes in the beers (edit: right at the time that modern glassware was affordable to the masses, bugger) so they "cut" their worts with sugar and other adjuncts such as maize.
  • So the government got sneaky and taxed sugar the same as malt
  • So the breweries lobbied and got that repealed
  • Then along came the first and second World Wars when Barley and Malt was scarce
  • So sugar to the rescue again - mostly from the good old Empire
  • By that time sugar usage was part of the taste and style of milds and bitters
  • Nowadays I believe sugar costs them more than malt and I see that a lot of modern brands are now all malt, but many "historical" beers like Wells Bombardier still use a truckload.
 

Giddo

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Wow, nice one chaps.

Recipe advice and a (modern) history lesson in three short posts. Surprised to hear that refined sugar is a common ingredient for sure. Bang goes my assumption that the English ales I grew up on are somehow purer (ie more "real") than Aussie beers!

I searched for "white sugar" and got mostly ginger beer results, definitely not a huge amount of discussion. Which fed my assumption that putting sugar in beer was "odd".

I will go and do some searching in relation to when the sugar is added. Post (BIAB) grain out presumably but which of start of boil / mid boil / flame out is the question I guess.


Thanks again for the quick and helpful responses.
 

yum beer

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Chuck your sugar into the boil lateish.....it needs enough time to fully disovle but too long and it can change its flavour...I'd look at last 5 minutes.
Be sure and stir as you add it so it doesnt get to the botom of you kettle and burn/caramelise.
 

slash22000

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From what I understand you're much better off using dextrose as opposed to just plain table sugar.
 

brettprevans

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slash22000 said:
From what I understand you're much better off using dextrose as opposed to just plain table sugar.
u understand very little then. Suggest you do more homework.

U can add sugar in the boil or during ferment. For big beers its recommended to add slowly thru the ferment. But with ur recipe id just chuck it in the boil.
 

Giddo

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Great stuff, all advice noted. Table sugar. 5 mins before flame out. Stir like I mean it.

Cheers all.
 

Bribie G

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In the old time breweries using copper kettles, sugar would get "scorched" somewhat and caramelise, giving extra flavours and I expect there would be a bit of that with exposed element urns.

Table sugar (Sucrose) is a double molecule of glucose:fructose - dextrose is the ordinary form of glucose.

To ferment it, the yeast has to use an enzyme called invertase which "cracks" the bond and make the single molecules available - it prefers the glucose first then the fructose.
Most of the fermentables in all grain wort consist of maltose, which is also a double molecule, but in that case it's glucose:glucose.

If you use some pure glucose (dextrose) it will produce alcohol, but the yeast starts off "lazy" and munches on the available glucose first before it shifts gear and gets into the hard work, and so would you, so the fermentation profile is a tad different. I know of no breweries that use dex.
 

Nick JD

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Also, if you put sucrose in the boil at the beginning ... it will become fructose and glucose. You're boiling violently it for an hour in an acidic wort.

Hell, sucrose will invert in a cup of tea.
 

Bribie G

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What is this tea you speak of?

Yes I'd put it in at the beginning of the boil
 

tazman1967

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I had a recipe for White Shield,it came great.
I used Lyle's Golden Syrup for the sugars.. It's inverted sugar, so a different beast.
I've used this in few English bitters.
The yeast I used according to Mr Maltys website was Wyeast 1028 London Ale for White Shield
But, pick any good English Ale strain.
 

Byran

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I dont think ive ever used sugar in any big beers, although ive only pushed IPAs and the like to 7%. I think ill try one and see how it goes...........
 

esssee

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Would you suggest adding sugar during a decoction, to replicate the caramelisation/scorching?
 

Diesel80

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I use raw sugar in my latest favourite, aussie pale ale.
Dead simple receipe and it seems great. It is a slightly thinner beer than my english ales, but it really hits the spot. Needed a change from english bitters that were too heavy (note I had not used sugar in any of them only grain). Armed with the latest knowledge and the results of my aussie pale ale, my bitters may get a slight tweaking next time around.

Live, experiment, learn, ???, profit.

Cheers,
D80
 

///

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So I may have a former nick-name of Mr 10% among the Illawarra Brethren. The fella who taught me how to make beer is ex-Bass; that is a normal UK Brewer from the 80's and 90's add-in for a grist to be honest. This on top of all the dot points mentioned, and the fact to bring in the beer profile nice and tight. Funny how those belgians use it to good affect ..

Sugar is far from a fiend, it is much a friend. Its a great ferment-able, it just needs to be given the same care and love all that stuff.
 

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