Regarding cold side oxidation, how long a beer can stay on yeast, and other questions

[CapnClunks]

I am currently fermenting a lager and am a bit concerned about oxidation, the lager obviously is being fermented in a temperature controlled fridge and I notice a lot of vacuum in the fermenter. Now I know it will probably be ok while fermentation is occurring but this recipe calls for cold crashing for 5 days @ 1.5c I do not have kegs, as I bottle condition my concern is that oxygen will be sucked though the airlock due to vacuum, is this correct?
Also I read that it's not a good idea to leave on yeast cake for more than 14 days?
Also due to the cold crashing will enough yeast be in the solution for bottle conditioning?
And lastly how do you use gelatin as a fining post fermentation ( is this just a keg thing)?

 

[yankinoz]

Unless your fermenter is designed to prevent it, you'll get a little O2 intake and oxidation. At that much intake the effects will be small. Noticeable, maybe--I've never seen a side by side comparison. Let's just say that those who can exclude oxygen at that stage, say, by pressure fermenting and spunding to slight pressure late, do.

Here's a look at possibilities: 7 Methods For Reducing Cold-Side Oxidation When Brewing Beer

Any deleterious effects after 14 days are normally very slow to develop, though much depends on temperature and whatever little organisms are in there.

That much cold crashing should leave you plenty of yeast for carbonation. Spare the yeast rapid temperature changes. Warm the beer to 18, preferably higher, but do it slowly, whether before or after bottling.

 

[CapnClunks]

Unless your fermenter is designed to prevent it, you'll get a little O2 intake and oxidation. At that much intake the effects will be small. Noticeable, maybe--I've never seen a side by side comparison. Let's just say that those who can exclude oxygen at that stage, say, by pressure fermenting and spunding to slight pressure late, do.

Here's a look at possibilities: 7 Methods For Reducing Cold-Side Oxidation When Brewing Beer

Any deleterious effects after 14 days are normally very slow to develop, though much depends on temperature and whatever little organisms are in there.

That much cold crashing should leave you plenty of yeast for carbonation. Spare the yeast rapid temperature changes. Warm the beer to 18, preferably higher, but do it slowly, whether before or after bottling.

Thanks I already read that article before I'm looking at the balloon method, what do you mean warm the beer after cold crashing? So I bottle warm is this correct?

 

[philrob]

No need to bottle warm only. I've bottled from cold without problems, but I allow the bottles to sit at ambient temperature for 2 to 3 weeks for carbonation. If I've not cold conditioned or lagered the beer, I've bottled from fermentation temperature. Again, never a problem.
The reduction in volume from fermentation to cold conditioning will be very small and has never been a problem for me.

 

[yankinoz]

Thanks I already read that article before I'm looking at the balloon method, what do you mean warm the beer after cold crashing? So I bottle warm is this correct?

Warm temps rouse yeast and facilitate carbonation. Recommended temps for lager yeasts apply to the main fermentation, give the best quality therein, but only slow bottle carbing. After carbing, chill,

With occasional exceptions the brewers who end up pitching yeast to carb first lagered in secondary.

I have also primed and bottled malty lagers cold, kept them cold for 2 months, warmed them slowly to carbonate and then rechilled. They were my best lagers,

 

[peter.b]

I wouldn't worry about a bit of O2 getting in. CO2 is substantially heavier than O2 (and every other gas that i'm aware of) so you'll have a protective CO2 blanket keeping everything else at bay.

For a lager, 4 weeks would be the absolute tops to leave the beer on the cake, that's according to John Palmer in 'How to Brew'.

 

[CapnClunks]

I wouldn't worry about a bit of O2 getting in. CO2 is substantially heavier than O2 (and every other gas that i'm aware of) so you'll have a protective CO2 blanket keeping everything else at bay.

For a lager, 4 weeks would be the absolute tops to leave the beer on the cake, that's according to John Palmer in 'How to Brew'.

When actually do the yeast start to disintegrate?

 

[peter.b]

When actually do the yeast start to disintegrate?

That will vary on the yeasts health, reserves and temperature. Cold temps put yeast to sleep, but their activity does not stop completely, and they eventually excrete unwanted's into your beer. Autolysis the name for this event, do some more research online to find out more.

 

[Cloud Surfer]

My first beers in comps had descriptions of oxidation recorded by the judges. As a new brewer I couldn’t see how everyone’s beers weren’t oxidised given how things are done on a homebrew scale.

I set about changing how I did everything post fermentation through to bottling and it’s made a big difference to my beers. You can’t get around the problem that you have to spend a bit of money on gear. As an absolute minimum, you need a CO2 setup. I couldn’t live without my pressure transfer kit now. I bought a vacuum pump and built a station for bottling and purging bottling kegs prior to filling from the fermenter.

 

[CapnClunks]

My first beers in comps had descriptions of oxidation recorded by the judges. As a new brewer I couldn’t see how everyone’s beers weren’t oxidised given how things are done on a homebrew scale.

I set about changing how I did everything post fermentation through to bottling and it’s made a big difference to my beers. You can’t get around the problem that you have to spend a bit of money on gear. As an absolute minimum, you need a CO2 setup. I couldn’t live without my pressure transfer kit now. I bought a vacuum pump and built a station for bottling and purging bottling kegs prior to filling from the fermenter.

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So counter flow filler, I'm new but I don't take shortcuts I am a uni student tho so cash is a issue I just put down about 700 into all grain because I needed something more technical I started on extract and it was boring I know I am going to mess up but that's how I learn. I really can't afford atm any type of c02 based system and I'm pretty happy with bottle conditioning, yes bottling is a chore but what isn't put on some music RDWHAHB and it's gold.
I agree with you but I have to do the best within the bounds of my current equipment

 

[professional_drunk]

You need to be thinking about your process to avoid oxidation from the beginning. You may just need to accept based on your limitations that you'll get some oxidation. Do your best, and drink up early. Take notes for how long it takes for oxidation to affect your beer so you'll know your best before date for future beers based on your current process.

There's no hard rule about 14 days. It's dependent on various things.