Recipe Request - Augustiner Edelstoff
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It’s a Munich Helles! From there you should be able to get the basics right. The brewery is one of the oldest in the world (started in the 1300's) and from what I have heard stills brews in the old traditional way.
I suspect its double or triple decocted. Many of the recipes looking to make this sort of beer use Munich and/or Melanoidin malt to get the colour and body the brewery gets by decocting. Unfortunately that will get you close to but not exactly what you would get from decoction.
If I were looking for a true to type (clone) version I would want to do at least one decoction and would be very tempted to just use Pilsner Malt. First choice for me would be Floor Malted Bohemian Pilsner by Weyermann, it has a bit more colour than the other pilsner malts and being floor malted a bit more complex malty flavour profile.
The Classic Beer Styles book "Bavarian Helles" by Horst Dornbusch would be a great read if you want to really get your head around the style.
The "Ultimate Almanac of World Beer Recipes" also by Horst Dornbusch gives a good modern version for Helles.
Note that Augustiner Edelstoff is a little darker and stronger (5.6% ABV) than your typical Helles.
You have picked a great beer to try to brew, hope you have the gear and the patience, not a lot of room to hide mistakes, call it a challenging style.
Might take a bit of wading through but there is lots of good information here The Quest for Edelstoff
Mark
I suspect its double or triple decocted. Many of the recipes looking to make this sort of beer use Munich and/or Melanoidin malt to get the colour and body the brewery gets by decocting. Unfortunately that will get you close to but not exactly what you would get from decoction.
If I were looking for a true to type (clone) version I would want to do at least one decoction and would be very tempted to just use Pilsner Malt. First choice for me would be Floor Malted Bohemian Pilsner by Weyermann, it has a bit more colour than the other pilsner malts and being floor malted a bit more complex malty flavour profile.
The Classic Beer Styles book "Bavarian Helles" by Horst Dornbusch would be a great read if you want to really get your head around the style.
The "Ultimate Almanac of World Beer Recipes" also by Horst Dornbusch gives a good modern version for Helles.
Note that Augustiner Edelstoff is a little darker and stronger (5.6% ABV) than your typical Helles.
You have picked a great beer to try to brew, hope you have the gear and the patience, not a lot of room to hide mistakes, call it a challenging style.
Might take a bit of wading through but there is lots of good information here The Quest for Edelstoff
Mark
I have to disagree with you slightly here Mark (probably the first time ever...). I've drunk a lot of Edelstoff over the last 18 months since a local bottleo started getting fairly regular shipments - Edelstoff is actually very pale and spritzy, at least in bottled form.
I've been doing side-by-sides with my own Helles and have come to the conclusion that 100% pilsner malt is the answer. This is doing Hochkurz mashes with very gentle heating during ramping, and very gentle boil too. Non decoction.
My latest batch was 50/50 Weyermann Pilsner and Extra Pale Premium Pilsner (inspired by the almanac recipe) and it still had just a smidge too much colour, although the malt character was pretty much spot on in terms of flavour and aroma.
I haven't worked out what hop they use but the hop character is minimal, whatever it is. I don't *think* it's Mittelfruh, Tettnang or Spalt in isolation, but it could be some combo of those.
Don't be shy to give it a bit of carbonation, too.
For reference this is the all-pilsner batch I referred to above. I didn't have time to filter it so it's not quite as brilliant as Edelstoff, and the condensation on the glass makes it look slightly darker in photos than it really is. Unfortunately I didn't take a photo when I had it side by side with the Edelstoff but it was really very close.
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Haven’t had the pleasure (and it was) of tasting it in good condition for a couple of years, my recollections were of it being at the darker, maltier, stronger end of the range given for Munich Helles. No much but more toward the high end than most.
Would love to hear what you think of the same beer brewed with the Floor Malted Pilsner, for mine it was the missing piece. Using the FMP and a gentle boil (60-90minutes) should hold the colour down to <6EBC, with a decoction I would expect into fall into the 6.5-7.5 EBC range and keep the golden hue that looks so good in Helles. Haven’t done much with Hochkurz mashes so can’t really comment on how that would impact on the style. Naturally it should be fairly spritzy, good for the style.
Actually we aren’t too far apart, probably more to do with heading in the same direction but with different equipment and personal tastes...
Who is the bottle shop that’s stocking it, might grab a couple to reacquaint myself with it.
Mark
Would love to hear what you think of the same beer brewed with the Floor Malted Pilsner, for mine it was the missing piece. Using the FMP and a gentle boil (60-90minutes) should hold the colour down to <6EBC, with a decoction I would expect into fall into the 6.5-7.5 EBC range and keep the golden hue that looks so good in Helles. Haven’t done much with Hochkurz mashes so can’t really comment on how that would impact on the style. Naturally it should be fairly spritzy, good for the style.
Actually we aren’t too far apart, probably more to do with heading in the same direction but with different equipment and personal tastes...
Who is the bottle shop that’s stocking it, might grab a couple to reacquaint myself with it.
Mark
It's a cracking beer, it would probably be the one I chose if I could only ever drink one type of beer for the rest of my life. And yeah, it's only the colour that I disagree with, being very pale compared to most other Munich Helles I've had. I'll see if I can dig up an in-the-glass photo and add it here.
I've been getting it from Malt Traders in Brisbane but there seem to be quite a few stockists of Augustiner now - I'd suggest German Liquor Specialities, Purvis, and Wine Sellers Direct as some that I've seen carrying Edelstoff and other Augustiner beers over the last twelve months or so. Their whole range is phenomenal really.
Edit: I'm pretty sure the beer in the glass here is Edelstoff (edit 2, yep confirmed it is Edelstoff) - it's much more pale yellow than gold.
I've been getting it from Malt Traders in Brisbane but there seem to be quite a few stockists of Augustiner now - I'd suggest German Liquor Specialities, Purvis, and Wine Sellers Direct as some that I've seen carrying Edelstoff and other Augustiner beers over the last twelve months or so. Their whole range is phenomenal really.
Edit: I'm pretty sure the beer in the glass here is Edelstoff (edit 2, yep confirmed it is Edelstoff) - it's much more pale yellow than gold.
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Do you have any idea what hops they're using @MHB? I've gone googling quite a few times and haven't even found anyone speculating about what they might be, let alone giving a recommendation.
My beer is quite similar in character to Edelstoff but definitely not a clone (wasn't intended to be) as the Spalt hops don't match, makes a bloody delicious Helles regardless.
I'm not familiar enough with understanding the intricacies of batch variation on a floor malted pilsner malt and tailoring the mash so have avoided it so far. Maybe one day but I'm happy enough with the performance of the standard Weyermann malts that FM is down the list of things I'm likely to tweak in a hurry.
My beer is quite similar in character to Edelstoff but definitely not a clone (wasn't intended to be) as the Spalt hops don't match, makes a bloody delicious Helles regardless.
I'm not familiar enough with understanding the intricacies of batch variation on a floor malted pilsner malt and tailoring the mash so have avoided it so far. Maybe one day but I'm happy enough with the performance of the standard Weyermann malts that FM is down the list of things I'm likely to tweak in a hurry.
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Hallertau Mittlefrüh would be the obvious choice, Saaz and Tetnanger (genetically the same as Saaz) would be contenders.
I suspect it’s more about the timing of the hop additions, probably a late addition around 1/4 the size of the bittering addition, late in the boil (last 10-15 minutes) or perhaps even in the whirlpool depending on the length of the whirlpool stand. Don’t recall the beer having much in the way of mowed grass character that some report (might be down to it being a couple of years or the quality of the beer I sampled), That lawn like flavour is often reported in beers finished with Saaz, if you taste it and want it Saaz/Tetnang might be a good choice late.
Mark
Just went and had a look through all the recipes in the Classic Styles book, they all say Hallertau Mittlefrüh with Saaz, Tetnang and Spelt all getting a mention. There are also suggested American and newer German varieties listed as bittering options.
Personally I think I would stick with the old noble hops.
M
I suspect it’s more about the timing of the hop additions, probably a late addition around 1/4 the size of the bittering addition, late in the boil (last 10-15 minutes) or perhaps even in the whirlpool depending on the length of the whirlpool stand. Don’t recall the beer having much in the way of mowed grass character that some report (might be down to it being a couple of years or the quality of the beer I sampled), That lawn like flavour is often reported in beers finished with Saaz, if you taste it and want it Saaz/Tetnang might be a good choice late.
Mark
Just went and had a look through all the recipes in the Classic Styles book, they all say Hallertau Mittlefrüh with Saaz, Tetnang and Spelt all getting a mention. There are also suggested American and newer German varieties listed as bittering options.
Personally I think I would stick with the old noble hops.
M
Yeah I've used Hallertau Mittelfruh, Tettnang and Spalt in Helles and all taste "right" for the style but none specifically match what I get from Edelstoff, although my earlier versions didn't match the malt either which may have affected hop perception. Spalt in the latest made a cracking Helles in its own right.
I've avoided Saaz as not-German but am tempted to give it a go regardless, I'm sure it'll make a delicious beer.
I've avoided Saaz as not-German but am tempted to give it a go regardless, I'm sure it'll make a delicious beer.
yankinoz
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Where did you find it?
DJ_L3ThAL
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I've read they use Hersbrucker!
TwoCrows
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Yes DJ
Herstbruker is from the Hallertau region and is resilient Mittelfrueh clone variety. Used in many lagers and cream ales. Very big in the USA as is in Germany.
I have heard that the people of Munich call Augustiner Edelstoff "Schädelstoff" due to its reputation to cause a bad headache the next day.
If interested
This link is to 3 pages of lager recipes, someone's version of Augustiner Edelstoff is amongst the listings..
Herstbruker is from the Hallertau region and is resilient Mittelfrueh clone variety. Used in many lagers and cream ales. Very big in the USA as is in Germany.
I have heard that the people of Munich call Augustiner Edelstoff "Schädelstoff" due to its reputation to cause a bad headache the next day.
If interested
This link is to 3 pages of lager recipes, someone's version of Augustiner Edelstoff is amongst the listings..
https://www.wildabouthops.nz/lager_pilsner_recipes.html
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my response from ChatGPT:
Creating a beer recipe that closely resembles Augustiner Edelstoff Helles, a Munich Helles Lager, is a great idea. However, keep in mind that this beer style is traditionally lagered, which means it requires fermentation and conditioning at lower temperatures than most ales. If you have the ability to lager, you can certainly try to create a similar beer. Here's a recipe for a 21-liter batch with an 80% brewhouse efficiency:
**Ingredients:**
**Grains:**
- 4.5 kg (10 lbs) Pilsner Malt
- 0.3 kg (0.66 lbs) Munich Malt (Light)
- 0.2 kg (0.44 lbs) Vienna Malt
**Hops:**
- 20g (0.71 oz) Hallertauer Mittelfrüh Hops (3.5% AA) - Boil at 60 minutes
- 10g (0.35 oz) Hallertauer Mittelfrüh Hops (3.5% AA) - Boil at 30 minutes
- 10g (0.35 oz) Hallertauer Mittelfrüh Hops (3.5% AA) - Boil at 15 minutes
**Yeast:**
- Wyeast 2308 Munich Lager yeast or Saflager W-34/70 (ferment at 50-55°F or 10-13°C)
**Water:**
- Use soft water if possible, as is common for Munich Helles.
**Instructions:**
1. **Mash:**
- Heat 15 liters (about 4 gallons) of water to around 165°F (74°C) and add the crushed grains.
- Maintain a mash temperature of 150°F (66°C) for 60 minutes.
- Sparge with enough water to collect a total pre-boil volume of 28 liters (about 7.4 gallons).
2. **Boil:**
- Bring the wort to a boil and add hops as indicated in the ingredient list.
- Boil for 60 minutes.
3. **Cool:**
- After the boil, rapidly cool the wort to the desired fermentation temperature of 50-55°F (10-13°C).
4. **Fermentation:**
- Transfer the cooled wort to a fermentation vessel and pitch the lager yeast.
- Ferment at 50-55°F (10-13°C) for approximately 2 weeks or until fermentation is complete.
5. **Lagering:**
- Rack the beer to a secondary fermentation vessel or lagering vessel (if available) and lager at near-freezing temperatures (32-35°F or 0-2°C) for several weeks, up to a few months. The longer you can lager, the smoother and more authentic the Helles will be.
6. **Bottle or Keg:**
- After lagering, either bottle or keg your beer.
7. **Carbonation and Aging:**
- If bottling, add priming sugar to carbonate the beer in the bottles.
- Let the beer carbonate and condition for at least 3-4 weeks in bottles or keg before consumption.
8. **Enjoy:**
- Serve well-chilled in a clean glass to enjoy your homemade Munich Helles, similar to Augustiner Edelstoff Helles.
Remember to follow proper sanitation practices throughout the brewing process, and make sure you have the equipment and capability to lager the beer effectively if you want it to closely resemble the traditional Munich Helles style.
Er, NO, Hersbrucker is one of the four "Land Race" varieties (Hallertau, Hersbrucker Tetnanger and Spalt) named for the regions where they evolved.
Hersbrucker is the most northern of the big hop growing regions.
Hersbrucker is grown in the Hallertau region. Mostly because it's resistant to a lot of the pests that affect the old Hallertau hops like Mittlefrüh. As are many of the newer Hallertau variants.
Hallertau Mittlefrüh remains the most prized of the Nobel hops (so called).
Mark
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Pretty "standard" type response from our GPT-mate with no actual insight into the real deal.
I've been reading some of the links shared above as well as others I found on Reddit, of which seem to have a great deal of real insight into the brewery. The most enlightening (and scary) being about an "Endosperm mash", which involves removing the husks from the grain, washing the husks and returning into the grist to assist lautering. Allegedly Augustiner use that process for the Edelstoff which is what gives the vibrant malt flavour "without harshness". It's a great beer but F-that!!!
Hey mate, do you mind posting some links to a few of those discussions please? I've never been able to find much info from my googling.Pretty "standard" type response from our GPT-mate with no actual insight into the real deal.
I've been reading some of the links shared above as well as others I found on Reddit, of which seem to have a great deal of real insight into the brewery. The most enlightening (and scary) being about an "Endosperm mash", which involves removing the husks from the grain, washing the husks and returning into the grist to assist lautering. Allegedly Augustiner use that process for the Edelstoff which is what gives the vibrant malt flavour "without harshness". It's a great beer but F-that!!!
Cheers
DJ_L3ThAL
Such rapp, very bass
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I'll do my best to dig it out, but first attempt I couldn't locate the specific thread. Think I was on the app on my phone so don't have the history like I would on the PC. Leave it with me!
