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Quantities For Aroma & Flavour Hopping

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mondestrunken

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Hi all.

One thing I've been wondering recently in terms of recipe design is how to calculate the quantities required for late hop additions.

Obviously the whole alpha acid, IBU, boil time thing is one issue, for which there are a whole heap of tables and calculators. But in the whole it's fairly easy to estimate the bitterness you want in a recipe.

Just looking through a variety of recipes it seems like the following quantities are appropriate as rules of thumb:
1/2 (or less) of the amount of bittering hops for a beer with little hop quality (e.g. malt-based German-style beers)
equal quantities of bittering hops for a moderate hop quality
twice the amount (and onwards to infinity) for a American IPA or something similar.

(I do realise that it will depend on hop type, freshness, boil gravity and phase of the moon as well, but I'm looking for general guidelines.)

Please help. Thanks!
 

Crusty

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Hi all.

One thing I've been wondering recently in terms of recipe design is how to calculate the quantities required for late hop additions.

Obviously the whole alpha acid, IBU, boil time thing is one issue, for which there are a whole heap of tables and calculators. But in the whole it's fairly easy to estimate the bitterness you want in a recipe.

Just looking through a variety of recipes it seems like the following quantities are appropriate as rules of thumb:
1/2 (or less) of the amount of bittering hops for a beer with little hop quality (e.g. malt-based German-style beers)
equal quantities of bittering hops for a moderate hop quality
twice the amount (and onwards to infinity) for a American IPA or something similar.

(I do realise that it will depend on hop type, freshness, boil gravity and phase of the moon as well, but I'm looking for general guidelines.)

Please help. Thanks!
I don't think you will find a specific rule of thumb answer for your question. Late hop additions for flavour & aroma will ultimately come down to personal preference & what's hoppy enough for you may not be hoppy enough for me or vise versa, so it's a bit of a try & see approach really. The quantities you stated above would certainly be a good starting point to work from. Do a couple of identical brews & record your findings. I hop tea'd 20lt of APA with 20g (1g/L) of Cascade for a little more hop flavour & it turned out great, just the right amount for me so the 1g/L is a good starting point as well.
Cheers
 

Yob

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The 'rule of thumb' Im using currently is to get approx 30% of total IBU from a bittering addition and the rest from 20 mins down which may include a 15 - 10 - 5 - and WP addition.

Right or wrong I dont know but when speaking to Dave from MG Brewery he indicated it was roughly what they do as well.

Yob
 

manticle

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For me, it's more about knowing my ingredients and what I want than anything else.

For beers hopped with high aa hops (which I only really use for US styles) I tend to push towards getting around half my IBU from small, frequent additions after 30 mins which gives good flavour and avoids harshness.

My rule of thumb is that brewing teaches the most about what you want in your beer (well brewing and driking). A table or formula can't really give you the same.
 

Lord Raja Goomba I

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My rule of thumb is that brewing teaches the most about what you want in your beer (well brewing and driking). A table or formula can't really give you the same.
+1 - the only thing formulae give you is the replicability once you've figured out what works for your palate.

Mine?

For an APA/AIPA, it'll be around 15IBU at 30 min (APA)/60min (AIPA), and the other 20-40 IBU from 10 minute additions.

But, that's with an almost identical malt base to work from. If I were to change the malts used, it'd change the formula, rendering it obsolete.

Experiment, arrive at what you like and keep tweaking.
 

np1962

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I prefer to work backwards in a way.
Depending on beer style and the aroma/flavour I'm after I'll add my 0,5,10 and 20min additions to the recipe then work out how much to add at 45 or 60 minutes to get the required IBU.
Theoretical Example:- APA
Total IBU = 30
Aroma hop @ flameout - 25gm or 1gm/L = 0IBU
Flavour hop @ 15minutes - 25gmor 1gm/L = 10IBU
Bittering @ 60minutes -as many grams as need to give 20IBU

The size of your aroma/flavour additions are a matter of pesonal choice for the type of beer you want to drink, I'll often use .5gm/L or .75gm/L but there are plenty of homebrewers who don't hesitate to use 5gm/L and more.

Slightly O/T and a bit of a whinge.
This is why I can't be bothered reading recipes 'designed using Brewmate' that people post on here when all hop additions are given as gm/L.
Who cares how many gm/L your bittering addition is? Would rather know how many IBU it adds.
Not the programs fault as such but those using it.

Cheers
Nige
 

Lord Raja Goomba I

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.....
Slightly O/T and a bit of a whinge.
This is why I can't be bothered reading recipes 'designed using Brewmate' that people post on here when all hop additions are given as gm/L.
Who cares how many gm/L your bittering addition is? Would rather know how many IBU it adds.
Not the programs fault as such but those using it.

Cheers
Nige
You can export it to text as either "normal" or "forum friendly" - forum friendly produces gm/L, whereas normal produces Qty and IBU.

Someone got cranky at me once for it, and told me this.

Goomba
 

np1962

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You can export it to text as either "normal" or "forum friendly" - forum friendly produces gm/L, whereas normal produces Qty and IBU.

Someone got cranky at me once for it, and told me this.

Goomba
Would be even better if you could have both together, perhaps one in brackets?
 

Nick JD

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I like heaps of the IBUs from a 60 minute addition as I find that a 10 minute addition of 30 IBUs and a 60 minute addition of 30 IBUs do not impart the same "bittering" all other things ignored.

There's something about boiling the shit out of all those other compounds that gives a smoother, more resiny, more balanced bitterness. YMMV.

It's also cheaper. And I'm a cheap bastard.

While I think this graph below is a great resource, it's a very simple representation of the multitude of things you can do with hops. For one, I reckon dry hopping does HEAPS for flavour (not just aroma) ... taste your hop tea. And that separating flavour and aroma into two distinct entities is bullshit - the tongue only tastes bitterness - flavour IS aroma, drink an IPA with a headcold for a graphic illustration of this.

 

Wolfy

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The 'rule of thumb' Im using currently is to get approx 30% of total IBU from a bittering addition and the rest from 20 mins down which may include a 15 - 10 - 5 - and WP addition.

Right or wrong I dont know but when speaking to Dave from MG Brewery he indicated it was roughly what they do as well.
70% of the IBU's from late additions much mean that MG are using shit-tonnes of late hops?
... or putting them in at around 30mins when (as per the graph above) it's as much about bittering as flavour.
 

hoppy2B

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The hop variety I am using would probably have the greatest influence on how much I would want to use. Pungent varieties like Cluster and Columbus can impart a lot of flavour and aroma for a set quantity of hops in comparison to a lot of other varieties. You're probably aware of that anyway.
 

mondestrunken

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Thanks folks.

This is just what I'm looking for. :D

Cheers
 

luvbeer

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If your anything like me and love the raw smell of hops (especially american style hops) think of the quantity of the addition as well as the time it goes into the beer.

I know same old story right!

If you smell the airlock in the primary (as we all love to do) its always a good representation of the hop we are using. At the end of primary fermentation there is little or none of that aroma left (the co2 has spat out all the aroma).
In my opinion you are wasting most of your aroma hops if you put them in before primary.
Always dry hop in secondary or ontop of the already dropped yeast(if your not going to harvest the cake) i think.

I like to think of hops as herbs in a dish, you will change or (isomerise) the hops if you cook them thus changing ultimately the aroma. wilted coriander leaves are not as aromatic as fresh. Same as hops.
 

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