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Qldkev's First 3v Run

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QldKev

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Originally I was going to build a 3V system, as lots of beginners I did not want to spend too much, and at the time I could not get the gear together at the correct price; so I started using BIAB. Nothing wrong with BIAB and over the years I've made a few (hundreds), but I've always wanted to go 3V. Since BIAB was working so well I decided there was no reason to go 3V without recirc and a heat exchanger.

Well it's been in the planning and making for several years, it finally has happened. My first 3V run.

I've still got tweaking to do, and a proper brew stand to make one day. Eventually when I pull my finger out (another year or so) I will be using an Arduino interface to control step mashes etc.


First pic, is just setting it all up,
82L HLT, with digiflow meter (and a sight glass but I need to mark it out)
100L Mash Tun with false bottom covering a concealed element to act as an internal RIMS. The wort pickup in from directly above the element and the temp probe is located in the centre too.
140L kettle
17022012880.jpg


Trusty old mill crushing away at the 13kg of grain for the 69L batch.
17022012881.jpg



Not a bad crush, set to .889mm, as I don't have any rice hulls.
17022012888.jpg


Underletting the grain for the mash in.
17022012890.jpg



Recirculating the wort. It's running a lot faster than what it looks like in the pic. It had a nice mixing effect for the entire layer.
17022012891.jpg


At this stage I had issues trying to raise the temp to mash out. The mash tun was uninsulated, and after about 2mins the power board tripped. By the time I had reset the power board (by the time it let me) I had lost 5 degrees. Made note here to close a couple of door as the sea breeze was blowing through pretty hard, and to get some insulation for next time. Once I got it all fired up again, it was taking a long time to raise to mashout, and I could hear the concealed element constantly cutting in and out (not from the external controller, from it's own boil dry protection). As expected I had crap backed onto the element. At least I could not taste any burnt flavours in the beer, and it cleaned off the element easily.
17022012894.jpg


The Beersmith brew sheet said add water to 81.551, I had 90L from the mash tun, so I needed to run the NASA a bit harder than normal to get the final volume down. At the end of the day I ended up with 3 cubes of sweet wort.
17022012897.jpg


Overall a good brewday. I've made my standard house beer MIDAPA, so I look forward to comparing it to my BIAB version. When I punched the numbers back into Beersmith I got 76.2% pre boil efficiency


Two questions:
Is any one else still using the concealed elements in the mashtun, if so, are you having issues with the crap build up insulating it? I ensured I had a good clean recirc before hitting the heating element.

Can someone check their brewsheet water additions against mine.
69L batch, 5L deadspace, 13.27kg grain
It gave me initial 55.44L water and single batch sparge of 44.41L
Which looks about right for the loss to the grain absorption, so maybe my digiflow read wrong.



QldKev
 

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dent

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I used to directly heat my mashtun with an element like that - I put in a duty cycle controller so that if I am just trying to maintain a temperature with grain in there I could run the element at a 10 or 20% duty cycle so it would never get hot enough to scorch anything. Not sure what off-the-shelf options there are for that - I guess you could put a 500W halogen lamp in series with the element.. ;)
 

QldKev

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I've got a dimmer style switch that can handle 3800w which could do it. The only issue I see is I want to do stepped mashes and also ramp up to mash out temps. With the size of the system even 2400w will be slow enough.

QldKev
 

NickB

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I would have thought a HERMs/RIMs type setup would work much better, and reduce the gunk on the element. Personally, I think direct heating the mash is much more trouble than it's worth! (not that I'm biased - HERMs brewer for 5 years + here ;)

Edit: thinking if you were recirculating for the heating periods at least (I recirc for the whole mash) you would reduce the risk that the same wort was sitting on the element the whole time...

Cheers
 

alcoadam

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It would be interesting to hear feedback on your results from 3v compared to biab....

Cheers.
 

ekul

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Ah, so thats why you were calling me today!! Nice one Kev. Nicee to come home from work and see some rad brew porn. Congrats mate, hope it tastes great. Edit- BUt if it doesn't you can always break out the sewing machine. I see a double batch from the 82L, a triple from the 100L and a quad from the trusty 140L ;)
 

KillerRx4

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I often have the same issues with element caking in my similar setup. Very frustrating!
I will switch to an external rims or herms one day because of it.

Interested in the flow meter tho, more info?
 

QldKev

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I would have thought a HERMs/RIMs type setup would work much better, and reduce the gunk on the element. Personally, I think direct heating the mash is much more trouble than it's worth! (not that I'm biased - HERMs brewer for 5 years + here ;)

Edit: thinking if you were recirculating for the heating periods at least (I recirc for the whole mash) you would reduce the risk that the same wort was sitting on the element the whole time...

Cheers
The idea was to have less bits in the system, and less to clean up. Before the heating element was switched on I recirc'd until the wort was clear, and yep also I recirc for the entire mash.

As per in this pic, the wort pickup is directly in the centre of the element, as is also the temp probe.
19082011641.jpg


When running there is a false bottom sitting over the pickup etc. (it has the centre whole covered with a pickup handle)19082011636.jpg


On paper this was the perfect system.
The only thing I am hoping is that when the power got cut when I started ramping up to mash out, maybe the shit settled down onto the element due to the pump also being cut from the power loss, and with the element being hot at the time the crap got stuck to it.


I know next time don't push the power board so hard. A stereo, a fan, cordless drill battery charger, clothes dryer on standby, stc-1000, march pump and the 2400w element are a bit much for 1 power board :huh:


So with the pump into a different outlet at least the recirc would continue.

Maybe I should have gone a HERMS (which was the idea all along)

QldKev
 

QldKev

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It would be interesting to hear feedback on your results from 3v compared to biab....

Cheers.
I'm looking forward to it too, but I wont have it on tap for nearly 5 weeks.



Ah, so thats why you were calling me today!! Nice one Kev. Nicee to come home from work and see some rad brew porn. Congrats mate, hope it tastes great. Edit- BUt if it doesn't you can always break out the sewing machine. I see a double batch from the 82L, a triple from the 100L and a quad from the trusty 140L ;)
Never, the bags have been hung up (for now, till I build that other system)


I often have the same issues with element caking in my similar setup. Very frustrating!
I will switch to an external rims or herms one day because of it.

Interested in the flow meter tho, more info?
Don't tell me that, the amount of time we have put into the mods and also the $, it has to work....



http://www.futurlec.com.au/Flow_Sensor.jsp

It is the Flow Meter with Flow Sensor for 1/2" Pipe, bottom of the page for $19.95

I got one without the display for an Arduino project, and at the time though I would give the one with a display a try.
I tested it on a 5L graduated bucket it it showed exactly correct, when running via the march pump (to emulate the real system).

Looking at the maths for todays brew
55.44L water sparge of 44.41L = 99.85
13kg grain 13L absorption
99.85 - 13
86.85L into the pot...
Which is only a couple of litres less than what I worked out I actually got, which could be the difference of the hot wort vs cold.

So I assume I have an issue in my Beersmith settings, and the meter could have been correct.


QldKev
 

mxd

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http://www.futurlec.com.au/Flow_Sensor.jsp

It is the Flow Meter with Flow Sensor for 1/2" Pipe, bottom of the page for $19.95

I got one without the display for an Arduino project, and at the time though I would give the one with a display a try.
I tested it on a 5L graduated bucket it it showed exactly correct, when running via the march pump (to emulate the real system).

Looking at the maths for todays brew
55.44L water sparge of 44.41L = 99.85
13kg grain 13L absorption
99.85 - 13
86.85L into the pot...
Which is only a couple of litres less than what I worked out I actually got, which could be the difference of the hot wort vs cold.

So I assume I have an issue in my Beersmith settings, and the meter could have been correct.


QldKev
unless the temp of the fluid become an issue, the one you got is only rated to 60 ?

I do like them and it's a good price, I think I see my next purchase I don't need :)
 

raven19

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Kev, what is that last picture we are looking at in the OP?


In regards to coating of gunk on elements - I certainly get this on my RIMS sheathed element (even with a good recirc of the mash to get clear runnings prior to running it past the element. Just the nature of the beast.

As long as I clean my element after each brew I dont have any scorching issues though - my RIMS sheathed ceramic element is low density though so that helps.
 

QldKev

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unless the temp of the fluid become an issue, the one you got is only rated to 60 ?

I do like them and it's a good price, I think I see my next purchase I don't need :)
I also got the flow part without the display, but that one is rated to 80c, so I took a guess **hope** that the one with the display should be ok too.



Kev, what is that last picture we are looking at in the OP?


In regards to coating of gunk on elements - I certainly get this on my RIMS sheathed element (even with a good recirc of the mash to get clear runnings prior to running it past the element. Just the nature of the beast.

As long as I clean my element after each brew I dont have any scorching issues though - my RIMS sheathed ceramic element is low density though so that helps.

Which last pic,
the one in the original post is the heating element with the grap on it, almost looks like yeast
or the one in the other post later, would be the false bottom I made covering the element.


Nice work Kev :icon_cheers:
Thanks mate, when you come around to grab the brew gear you will have to check it over and give me more ideas




QldKev
 

KillerRx4

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That flowmeter looks pretty good for the $.
Just ordered the same & the higher rated temp sensor (80C) for $10 extra.
 

raven19

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Which last pic,
the one in the original post is the heating element with the grap on it, almost looks like yeast
or the one in the other post later, would be the false bottom I made covering the element.
Yep thats the one. The pic is throwing me as I can't get my bearings. Looks like a lid full of yeast in the bottom of a pot!
 

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