Python / Trunk Line Where To Buy?

[komodo]

Guys,

As I've posted in the past I want to set up a "long line draught system" so I can have my ugly bulky chest freezer in the shed and have my beer taps out at my BBQ area where they are easily accessed for a beer after work or when we are entertaining. This keeps the minister of war and finance happy and makes me happy and keeps the bar fridge in that area clear for BBQ supplies.

The idea at the moment is to have an aluminium tank fabricated to hold about 90 litres (3 cubic feet) of glycol solution over the compressor hump to keep the draught system cool - obviously the aluminium will have fairly good thermal conductivity and the 90 litres of glycol ought be able to contain enough "thermal mass" to keep the draught system cool enough. NOTE the glycol in the fridge will NOT be used for flooding the font.

So now I'm trying to find where to get python line from. I got a quote from Hoshizaki Lancer / Lancer Pacific & Andale for the python line 6 beverage 2 glycol - nearly $70 per meter! 15 meters was over $1k SWMBO is not gunna share the passion for beer at that price!
So are there cheaper places to obtain it from?
Any one tried making their own pyton using beer line and that black lagging insulation plumbers use?

Advice / help / contacts appreciated!

Cheers,
Kirk

 

[komodo]

No one with any suggestions.

Just re-read my previous quotes and turns out my previous quote (which was $67.93 per meter) was for 8 beer 4 glycol so I've sent off for a second quote from Lancer Pacific yesterday. Just awaiting a reply. hopefully I can get that price down a bit with the reduced number of lines! if i can get it down to $40 - $45 per meter I'll be happy.

 

[brettprevans]

ggez dude for that price i'd make an ugly chest freezer beautiful and spend the rest on homebrewing.

 

[floppinab]

I've posted in other threads on this topic Komodo, I reckon it's pretty simple to make one yourself.

Clark Rubber have a variety of sizes of tubing (prolly got a special name, can't remember it now) used for insulating plumbing that you can use.

Had just posted the above and of course came to mind that threading 15 metres with your lines and chilling hoses is going to be difficult. You could break it up into 3 or 4 metre sections and then tape it up at the end. Can't remember the lengths that Clark sell it in but will be a whole cheaper than a commercially made python and work just as well.

Anyways I did the above on my bar setup (~ a 4m run) and it works very well.

Oh, and another tip that comes to mind (prolly got it off AHB!!!!) was to throw a bit of talc powder inside the tube, helps the lines slide through.

 

[komodo]

Interesting. Thats sort of the idea I was thinking. Yeah talc is a great lubricant (i spose thats what you would call it)used to use it alot for pulling cables through cars Makes getting a bit of 50mm^2 cable through the firewall to the boot for a big stereo install a LOT easier. Just slippery on the concrete floors though!
Ravers also pour it on the ground to make doing the Melbourne Shuffle easier random facts.

Just got an email from Andale requesting more information on my requirements so be interesting to see what the price I get from them will be also.

 

[komodo]

Just heard back from Lancer Pacific $47.85 per meter (inc gst) 6 beer 2 glycol with 25mm insulation or $61.90 per meter (inc gst) if i opt upto 32mm insulation.

Now working on 6.3mm lines in the andale brewmaster range I'd be up for $35.44 per meter (inc gst) just for lines plus insulation plus my labour plus the hope that it works it would also come to $600 plus insulation for 17 meters...

Now the 25mm insulation would work out to $813.45 inc gst for 17 meters (which I could swallow - just). Just need to make a decision if I think 25mm insulation is going to be enough. It is going to be threaded through a 100mm PVC pipe/conduit which is going to be burried under ground from the shed to the BBQ area...
Or should I bite the bullet and spend the extra $235 and just be done with it and buy the 32mm insulation python and not wonder later on...

 

[NickB]

Just make it yourself. Planning on doing that when I move to the new place - about 4-5m of line upstairs to the font. I will not be flooding the font, just the lines. Getting mine at the nearby plumbing place for about $10/m I think.

Cheers

 

[komodo]

Nick @ $10 per meter that actually makes the 25mm python even more attractive $35.44per meter for lines (remember thats 8 lines total) + $10 for insulation = $45.44 per meter not including my time and effort Vs $47.85 per meter completed or $40.97 over the entire 17 meters... Plus the lines wont be color coded like they are in a python...

 

[Andyd]

+1 for color coding.

I made my own lines, and as long as you keep them labelled it's all good. Talcum certainly made my life easier.

The biggest challenge you'll have is the glycol. My bath (which is in fact a 100Lt freezer, all siliconed up and filled with a glycol/water mix) starts at -12, and over the course of the afternoon hits 2 degrees in about 2-3 hours. So it's sufficient for an afternoon, but not a whole day (mind you, this is when I'm flooding my outdoor font ).

It's worth having a seperate insulated line for the cold glycol line. The return line is in my python, and by the time it gets there via the font it's hit a temperature that doesn't freeze the product in the python.

All in all I've come to the opinion that there's a damned fine reason you pay more money for a commercial glycol chilling unit - but until I win the lottery that's just not going to happen!

Andy

 

[NickB]

Hmmm, OK. Turns out the stuff I can get is $10/2m length.

I like making things, so will probably just stick with this I think. Not bad prices from Lancer Pacific though!

Anyone got any pics?

Cheers

 

[komodo]

Hopefully soon Nick. Just awaiting a price on seperage glycol python and working out how to get it here without the minister of war and finance noticing.
$per meter does make it a bit more attractive and I would probably look to doing it if it wasnt such a long distance that I need. No reply from Andale yet...

Andy thats interesting that your 100L glycol bath still warms up that quick. Might have to keep my eyes open for a glycol unit at the right price still ...

 

[NickB]

Hmmm, yes, the glycol heating was a worry, as I'll be running an outdoor font as well. Was planning on a glycol bath of about 30-50L depending on how much space I have left in the freezer (F&P H275x - should fit 7 kegs with a collar)

Komodo - can see why you would go a commercial python at those distances. Me, I'll just be running from under the verandah to above to the font, probably about 4-5m at most! Just want to reduce foaming more than anything!

Cheers

 

[komodo]

Yeah the glycol thing is a bit of a concern.
My plan was to have a 90L tank sitting on top of the compressor hump in the freezer for chilling the lines. Then having a secondary chest freezer with about 100L of glycol at as cold as the chest freezer would run for flooding the font.
If you look in my other thread regarding font disconnects you'll note I am planning on running the beer lines in a seperate sleeve so that when flooding the font the beer lines dont freeze up.
But going by the fact that Andyd says his 100L of glycol @ -12 heats up to 2 degrees in 2-3 hours has me thinking that this just isnt going to work the way I've been thinking it would. I thought that 100L of glycol would have given me plenty of thermal mass. Hrmmm.
My font is also going to be out side and I was hoping to get about 7 hours out of it all iced up when entertaining. Hrmmm now to go in search of information.
I wonder if adding a fan to the low pressure coils on the freezer woudl help with efficiency?

 

[RetsamHsam]

It is going to be threaded through a 100mm PVC pipe/conduit which is going to be burried under ground from the shed to the BBQ area...

I would have thought that you wouldn't need any insulation if you were running the lines underground... Depends on how deep you are giong I guess.

 

[Andyd]

My font is iced for about an hour (depending on ambient temp - this was on a mild winters day), after which it thaws out quickly. It continues to sweat, but doesn't ice up for long.

The glycol through the beer lines is pretty important too - you want to keep the product in the lines cool, otherwise you're going to be dumping an awful lot of good beer that goes warm (unless the taps running flat out for 7 hours ).

A seperate vessel for the font chill isn't a bad call, but you still need to cool the lines (as well as the beer).

I should point out that the pump I'm using to drive the glycol is a submersible in the glycol, so this will certainly have an impact on the ability of the glycol to maintain a temperature. I'm looking for a decent inline pump to run it instead - hopefully that will make a big difference, but I don't imagine that's going to get me more than perhaps another hour or two...

Andy

 

[komodo]

Yeah Andy I was planning a 6 beer + 2 glycol python with a glycol solution in the keg freezer with fridgemate at 2ish degrees to keep the beer lines cool. Then having a seperate python for a glycol in a second small chest freezer send / return glycol only which chills / freezes the font when I want to be a wanker.

Im hoping that an inline pump and an agitator in the glycol tank will help keep it (the font) frozen when i switch it on. That seems to be the suggestions I've read so far from others facing similar situations.

 

[Guest Lurker]

Seriously, so much less effort if you find a wall, put ugly freezer behind, put taps in front. First 50 ml of beer completely cools tap and line, no python, no glycol, no huge expense, no straining compressor, nicely poured beer.

 

[riverside]

Guys,

As I've posted in the past I want to set up a "long line draught system" so I can have my ugly bulky chest freezer in the shed and have my beer taps out at my BBQ area where they are easily accessed for a beer after work or when we are entertaining. This keeps the minister of war and finance happy and makes me happy and keeps the bar fridge in that area clear for BBQ supplies.

The idea at the moment is to have an aluminium tank fabricated to hold about 90 litres (3 cubic feet) of glycol solution over the compressor hump to keep the draught system cool - obviously the aluminium will have fairly good thermal conductivity and the 90 litres of glycol ought be able to contain enough "thermal mass" to keep the draught system cool enough. NOTE the glycol in the fridge will NOT be used for flooding the font.

So now I'm trying to find where to get python line from. I got a quote from Hoshizaki Lancer / Lancer Pacific & Andale for the python line 6 beverage 2 glycol - nearly $70 per meter! 15 meters was over $1k SWMBO is not gunna share the passion for beer at that price!
So are there cheaper places to obtain it from?
Any one tried making their own pyton using beer line and that black lagging insulation plumbers use?

Advice / help / contacts appreciated!

Cheers,
Kirk

Yes i made all of my own, just use a good wall thickness insulex, eg 25mm !