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JasonY

The Imperial Metric Brewery
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Ok promash users ... after my wheat beer I am now confused over what promash is telling me (see Wheat Beer Efficiency thread).

Anyway I entered 80% on the recipe page as I have been having a good run of late. I was aiming for 1.051 @ 19L. I got 1.042 @ 19L (in the fermenter).

Now in my brewing session if I enter 1.042 @ 19L in the fermenter in the efficiency section it says I hit 80%!! wtf?

I recently installed it on my laptop so I am not sure if I have not turned on some "give me sane results" setting .... of course I could just be stuffing it up?

Anyone got a sensible explanation? Below is the text report for the autopsy.

Code:
07-03-2004  MyWeizen



A ProMash Brewing Session Report

--------------------------------



Brewing Date: Saturday July 03, 2004

Head Brewer:  Jason

Asst Brewer:  

Recipe:       MyWeizen



BJCP Style and Style Guidelines

-------------------------------



17-A  Wheat Beer, Bavarian Weizen



Min OG:  1.040   Max OG:  1.056

Min IBU:    10   Max IBU:    20

Min Clr:     2   Max Clr:     9  Color in SRM, Lovibond



Recipe Specifics

----------------



Batch Size (L):          19.00    Wort Size (L):    19.00

Total Grain (Kg):         3.70

Anticipated OG:          1.051    Plato:            12.54

Anticipated SRM:           3.4

Anticipated IBU:          18.9

Brewhouse Efficiency:       80 %

Wort Boil Time:             90    Minutes



Actual OG:  1.051   Plato: 12.54

Actual FG:  1.012   Plato:  3.07



Alc by Weight:  3.98      by Volume:  5.09  From Measured Gravities.

ADF:            75.5      RDF         62.9  Apparent & Real Degree of Fermentation.



Actual Mash System Efficiency: 80 %

Anticipated Points From Mash:  50.67

Actual Points From Mash:       50.49





Pre-Boil Amounts

----------------



Evaporation Rate:       7.50    Percent Per Hour



Raw Pre-Boil Amounts - only targeted volume/gravity and evaporation

rate taken into account:



Pre-Boil Wort Size:                21.41    L

Pre-Boil Gravity:                   1.045   SG          11.19  Plato



With sparge water, mash water, additional infusions, vessel losses, top-up

water and evaporation rate recorded in the Water Needed Calculator:



Water Needed Pre-Boil Wort Size:   27.40    L

Water Needed Pre-Boil Gravity:      1.035   SG          8.81  Plato





Formulas Used

-------------



Brewhouse Efficiency and Predicted Gravity based on Method #1, Potential Used.

Final Gravity Calculation Based on Points.

Hard Value of Sucrose applied. Value for recipe: 46.2100 ppppg

Yield Type used in Gravity Prediction: Fine Grind Dry Basis.



Color Formula Used:   Morey

Hop IBU Formula Used: Tinseth

Tinseth Concentration Factor: 1.30



Additional Utilization Used For Plug Hops:         2 %

Additional Utilization Used For Pellet Hops:      10 %





Grain/Extract/Sugar



   %     Amount     Name                          Origin        Potential SRM

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------

 51.4     1.90 kg.  Hoepfner Wheat Malt Light     Germany        334.13      2

 45.9     1.70 kg.  IMC Pilsner                   Australia      317.42      2

  2.7     0.10 kg.  Hoepfner Caramel Malt Pils    Germany        300.71      2



Potential represented as IOB- HWE ( L / kg ).





Hops



   Amount     Name                              Form    Alpha  IBU  Boil Time

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------

 26.00 g.     Hallertauer                       Pellet   4.60  18.9  90 min.





Yeast

-----



White Labs WLP300 Hefeweizen Ale



Water Profile

-------------



Profile:           

Profile known for: 



Calcium(Ca):           0.0 ppm

Magnesium(Mg):         0.0 ppm

Sodium(Na):            0.0 ppm

Sulfate(SO4):          0.0 ppm

Chloride(Cl):          0.0 ppm

biCarbonate(HCO3):     0.0 ppm



pH: 0.00







Mash Schedule

-------------



Mash Type: Single Step

Heat Type: Infusion



Grain kg:     3.70

Water Qts:   11.74 - Before Additional Infusions

Water L:     11.11 - Before Additional Infusions



L Water Per kg Grain: 3.00 - Before Additional Infusions



Tun Thermal Mass:      0.00

Grain Temp:              21 C



Dough In Temp:               73  Time:   0

Saccharification Rest Temp:  67  Time:   0

Mash-out Rest Temp:          76  Time:  10

Sparge Temp:                  0  Time:   0



Runnings Stopped At:  1.010 SG       2.56 Plato





Additional Infusion Temperatures And Amounts

--------------------------------------------



Mash Out Step:             0.00 Ltr of  100 Degree Water Added





Total Mash Volume L:      13.58  - After Additional Infusions



All temperature measurements are degrees Celsius.







Water Needed For Brewing Session

--------------------------------



  Sparge Amount:  21.00  Sparge Deadspace:    0.00  Total Into Mash:   21.00



Total Grain Kg:    3.70        Ltr Per Kg:    3.00  Total From Mash:    7.40

                              Mash Liters:   11.11

                         Grain Absorption:    3.71



                                Amount Lost in Lauter Tun Deadspace,

                                          Grant and Misc. to Kettle:    1.00



                                       Top Up Water Added to Kettle:    0.00

                                                 Amount into Kettle:   27.40



                          Boil Time (min):   90.00 Evaporation Rate:    7.50

                                                  Amount after Boil:   24.32



                                           Left in Kettle Deadspace:    4.00

                                                    Left in Hopback:    0.00

                                        Left in Counterflow Chiller:    0.00

                         Left in Other Equipment / Other Absorption:    0.00



                                                 Amount to Chillers:   20.32

                                     Amount After Cooling (4 perc.):   19.51







Grain absorption rate is: 1.01 (L Per kg)



Evaporation rate is Percent per Hour



This formulation will yield 19.51 liters of fermentable wort.



You will need 32.11 liters of water for the complete brewing session.





Efficiency Specifics

--------------------

Recipe Efficiency Setting: 80 %





With sparge water, mash water, additional infusions, vessel losses, top-up

water and evaporation rate recorded in the Water Needed Calculator:



Target Volume (L):      27.40

Estimated OG:           1.035    Plato: 8.81





Raw Pre-Boil Targets - only targeted volume/gravity and evaporation

rate taken into account:



Target Volume (L):      21.41

Estimated OG:           1.045    Plato: 11.19





Post-Boil Targets:



Target Volume (L):      19.00

Estimated OG:           1.051    Plato: 12.54





Recorded Actuals - Measurement Taken In Ferementer:



Recorded Volume (L):    19.00

+Losses (L):            3.84

Total Volume (L):       22.84

Recorded OG:            1.042    Plato: 10.48





At 100 percent extraction from the maximum mash potential:



Total Points:              63.34

Points From Mash:          63.34

Points From Extract/Sugar: 0.00





With the recipe efficiency setting, you should have achieved:



Total Points:              50.67

Points From Mash:          50.67

Points From Extract/Sugar: 0.00





Actuals achieved were:



Actual Points From Mash:       50.49

Actual Mash System Efficiency: 80





Fermentation Specifics

----------------------



Pitched From:          Starter

Amount Pitched:       0 mL

Lag Time:             0.00 hours



Primary Fermenter:    Glass

Primary Type:         Closed

Days In Primary:      0

Primary Temperature:   20 degrees C







Inventory Analysis

------------------



Grain/Malt/Extract/Sugar       Origin          Recipe Kg     Kg In Stock   Kg Needed

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------



Hoepfner Wheat Malt Light       Germany           1.90          0.00          1.90

IMC Pilsner                     Australia         1.70          0.00          1.70

Hoepfner Caramel Malt Pils      Germany           0.10          0.00          0.10





Hop                            Origin          Recipe g      g In Stock     g Needed

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Hallertauer - Pellet            USA              26.00          0.00         26.00





Extras                         Recipe  In Stock  Needed

-------------------------------------------------------







Yeast                          Recipe  In Stock  Needed

-------------------------------------------------------

Hefeweizen Ale                  1.00     0.00     1.00

(White Labs WLP300)





Notes

-----



added DME as I got shit extraction
 
J

Jovial_Monk

Guest
I do not like the Promash reports, long as a roll of toilet paper!

3.6k grains will give 42 GU in 19L wort at 75% (quick back of envelope calculation) and with the bit of carapils (why carapils???) you have a bit over 75% eff.

Agree?

Jovial Monk
 

Batz

Batz Brewery...Hand crafted beers from the 'Batcav
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I agree JM

Beersmith :rolleyes:
 

JasonY

The Imperial Metric Brewery
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Yep when I do the calc I get 1.042 in 23L (my deadspace in the kettle is 4L) using 80% ...... I have never had a problem with promash but since I put it on a new computer it is telling me lies :)

So it seems that the promash recipe screen gives me predictions without taking into account the kettle deadspace .... strange I was hitting my targets before so I was wither lucky or I have stuffed up a setting.

Yes report is very long, I dumped just about everything it offered :)
 

Gout

Bentleigh Brau Haus
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i havn't been through the details as i am at work, but there is a section when you can select to work efficency via the kettle gravity and volume (eg without liquid losses) or in the fermenter where it takes losses into account

maybe this has somthing to do with it?
 

Doc

Doctor's Orders Brewing
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This is my observation from Promash's efficiency calcs.
From memory there are two points which it will give you efficiency (in the kettle post boil, and in the fermenter).
If you chose in the fermenter (well for me anyway) it tells me my efficiency is usually around 86%. If I choose in the kettle it is like 75%.
So I base all my calcs around 75% efficiency and meet all my targets when it hits the fermenter. I haven't tried to dig down as to where the variation comes from.

Beers,
Doc
 

PostModern

Iron Wolf Brewery
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Doc said:
If you chose in the fermenter (well for me anyway) it tells me my efficiency is usually around 86%. If I choose in the kettle it is like 75%.
So I base all my calcs around 75% efficiency and meet all my targets when it hits the fermenter. I haven't tried to dig down as to where the variation comes from.
In the fermenter accounts for gravity increase due to evaporation during the boil perhaps?
 

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