Professional Vs Amateur - Competitions

[brendanos]

So I guess this is a somewhat self indulgent thread/poll, but it is a question that has been put to me many times in the last 12 months while studying brewing and entering into the professional brewing world and seems to be one that splits the crowd so thought it would be nice to hear some opinions.

At the crux of the dilemma are the words "professional" and "amateur". The difference being a professional seeks profit in their field. By definition I believe I am both - I have very much been an amateur for the last 6 years, and even as a commercial brewer I do not feel like I am seeking a profit. My homebrews are still homebrews - brewed in plastic buckets in my laundry, absolutely unrelated to what I do at work, though many have expressed the opinion that I have an unfair advantage over other homebrewers, and I was recently informed that I was not eligible to win a local homebrew comp as it was promoted as "amateur". I know homebrewers with fancier systems than some commercial brewers, and many homebrewers with much more technical knowledge.

Last year it did feel a little strange winning awards like "best amateur beer of show" and "runner up champion amateur brewer" so I'd like to know where others stand on this (especially those involved with organising/running competitions). Do I have a right to enter these comps? Should I feel guilty about it? I've always enjoyed competing in things, like to know I'm competing against the best, & I can hardly enter my homebrews in professsional/commercial comps so if I can't enter amateur comps then where do I go?

 

[mckenry]

I believe so. If you havent utilised any gear from work, then why not? Knowledge is all up to the individual, so thats hardly an argument. I think amateur means, it's not from a commercial batch. I wouldnt mind if you were in my comp. Besides, beating a pro - now there's bragging rights.

 

[ashley_leask]

I voted yes too, on the same assumption it's not brewed in your professional premises.

ETA: My reasoning is there's nothing stopping any of us amateurs from acquiring a professional level of knowledge, but if you're using professional gear of a type that amateurs won't have access to, then that would be unfair.

 

[bradsbrew]

Cant see why you shouldnt be allowed to enter a beer that was made on your gear in your home that your not selling.

Using a FWK to enter a comp, well thats another story.

Cheers

 

[DU99]

i cant see why not ,be different if CUB was entering stuff of the production line

I know homebrewers with fancier systems than some commercial brewers, and many homebrewers with much more technical knowledge.

 

[outbreak]

I initially thought no, then I thought to myself you arent dealing with professional gear and are doing it at home like the rest of us. However, I am assuming you are a professional brewer, its your job you do it every day. Its like on Master Chef, pro chefs couldnt enter (not sure if thats a valid comparison)

Long story short... technically speaking id say no, but my general opinion would be yes. If your beers are great and you win comps you will be forcing us other guys to research more and make better beer which will take the comps to higher levels.

 

[Spoonta]

cant see why not mate

 

[keifer33]

I think they are just jealous. Without your job you are still an amateur brewer (no offence) as you are not in it to make money. If you are not brewing using a professional premises then surely you are brewing in your own time as a hobby thus making you an amateur with a sheetload of knowledge.

 

[Fuggle]

Kmon Guys,

How can someone who gets paid to make beer, be allowed to enter a "COMPETITION" against guys who "DON'T" get paid to brew ?????????????????????????????????

 

[brendo]

Using a FWK to enter a comp, well thats another story.

Why?? how is this any different to someone who enters using a kit? The wort is still essentially created by someone else in both scenarios, however the individual is responsible for fermenting it (including yeast choice) and finishing the wort (steeping more grain, late/dry hop).

 

[RobW]

I don't see a problem if you use your own gear to make it.

What about amateurs using a BOP and entering that in a comp?

 

[drew9242]

I would say no. Bit harsh for your scernario, but they are called amateur comps. So the organizers would have to draw the line somwhere. And being an amateur comp you do have a unfair advantage due to all the experience you get.

 

[Tanga]

I voted yes too, on the same assumption it's not brewed in your professional premises.

ETA: My reasoning is there's nothing stopping any of us amateurs from acquiring a professional level of knowledge, but if you're using professional gear of a type that amateurs won't have access to, then that would be unfair.

This pretty much sums up my thoughts on the matter too.

Congrats on the prizes dude =).

 

[shavey147]

Kmon Guys,

How can someone who gets paid to make beer, be allowed to enter a "COMPETITION" against guys who "DON'T" get paid to brew ?????????????????????????????????

Getting paid to do something doesn't immediately make you an expert at it & I'm sure there are plenty of people on here that would have close to the same level of knowledge of brewing as some commercial brewers.

I have agree with the general consensus on this one and say that, provided your homebrew isn't brewed on commercial gear, I don't see any reason why you should be excluded from amateur competitions.

 

[brendanos]

Cheers for the feedback so far guys.

Fuggle - could you elaborate further as to your reasoning? Where else could I compete?

Hypothetically, what if I took my system to work? What if I used the pH meter because mine was broken?

 

[brendanos]

I'm not convinced that knowledge or experience is unfair - as if you take your hobby seriously (as most amatuer's would) you can learn just as much as the next guy.

Should the disinction be on the brewer or the beer? The beers aren't produced for commercial reasons.

As a counterpoint, I have always homebrewed as a means of learning more about beer under the pretense of making a career of it - so have I really ever been an amateur?

 

[gone_fishing_]

I voted yes on the provisor that no "work" equipment OR ingredients were used.
For example, it would be rather unfair if certain hops used by a commercial brewery (not available to homebrewers in general) were used in a comp. This would also apply to yeast strains, water, malt and of course pH meters.

GF

 

[felten]

You should be allowed to enter your homebrew in a homebrew competition, apart from knowledge and experience I don't seen how a commercial brewer has any sort of massive advantage over anyone else who can accumulate the same knowledge and experience using their own gear. Now if you were entering commercial beer as your own that is a different story, and there is different competitions just for such a thing.

Ingredients and equipment available to breweries are also available to homebrewers (in some form), many homebrewers have a mini lab and testing equipment for pH/DO/tds and so on, and they're freely available to purchase. And those things still aren't a massive advantage, how often do you see people place in competitions that are using extracts and their entry level homebrew kit w/ dry yeast, it's more about a brewer's skill (and maybe the judges) than any sort of degree or equipment.

whether they let you win a prize though I guess is up to them

 

[Boondy]

I think I'll abstain on this one.

Obviously, it centres around the word "Amateur", so the intent of the competition organiser should define eligibility or otherwise.

Personally, I have no problems so long as there is no unfair advantage being used, but I understand that some people would take issue, and can understand why.

It's comfortable sitting up here on the fence...

 

[drew9242]

So are you saying that the knowledge and experience you have learnt to become a professional brewer (and of course the experience you have in the indursty), does not give others an unfair advantage, because every one can access this knowledge.

I can't see how that works. For one i would hope if i went to beer courses and worked as a brewer full time, that i become a **** load better then i am now. Due to the fact i can do it 40 hours a week. At the moment i can only spare 8 hours a week if i am lucky to do a brew. What i am saying is we can all access the knowledge but professional get a lot more time too do so.

Once you get paid to do something you are considered a professional at it. If a professional fine furniture maker entered a piece into a amateur comp, even though he made it at home. Would that be fair on the rest???
Or a professional runner enters a amateur comp. Would that be fair on the rest???

For myself it wouldn't bother me if you entered. Mainly because i don't enter too win. But to get some feedback on my beers. But if a competion is for amateurs, you would need to be a amateur. I don't think that just because you come home from work you are all of a sudden an amateur brewer.

Maybe we need a new beer comp for professional brewers brewing at home.