Prime and bottle cold, lager, warm to carbonate

[yankinoz]

Directions I've found for lagering in bottle say to carbonate warm and then cold condition. What if the order is reversed? Rather than recap bottles, prime and bottle cold, lager right away and later warm to carbonate

A while back and on a whim I did this with two bottles of an Oktoberfest (S-189 lager yeast) and preferred them to the rest of the batch that was carbonated and then lagered in bottle. After two months lagering in bottle, the yeast reawakened and did its job.

Recently I'd fermented a kolsch with K-97, a German ale yeast for which lagering is recommended. I primed and bottled and carbonated half the batch after 10 days, half after 15 days (at @ 21C ).

With some other yeasts I've found 10 days did the job, but with K-97 the carbonation was incomplete. I shook and warmed those bottles for 5 more days, cooled and sampled. Way better than the 15-day bottles. No contest.

There are many questions to answer. I'm going to experiment soon with a dunkel and later with a pilsner, lagering riight after bottling and warming later. I'll report back on this thread.

My questions for now are, has anyone else done this, and is there maybe a name for it, like Gezundheitsscheissenwirtschaft? My Google searches just bring up the normal procedure.

 

[Liam_snorkel]

how long are you lagering the beer before bottling? or do you jsut cold crash for a few days

 

[Rocker1986]

I've never tried it, but I don't have the fridge space available to store that many bottles at once either. Although I'm kegging now anyway so it's a bit of a moot point..

Interesting process though. I might give it a go on a few bottles next time I brew a pilsner. If I make 25 litre batches I end up with surplus bottles. Handy for little experiments like that.

 

[yankinoz]

how long are you lagering the beer before bottling? or do you jsut cold crash for a few days

6-8 weeks in the first two tries.

Next batch, the dunkel, will be eight weeks lagering in the bottle. I'll also carbonate a few before lagering, as many as I have room for in a different fridge. Worse that can happen with the late-carbonated bottles is poor carbonation when the beer wakes up. So far no problem: if the yeast is there at the bottom, as there was in the partly carbonated batch, shake. With the dunkel I'll mark the last bottles, which tend to have a bit more yeast go in them. See if that makes a difference.

A pilsner would be the best test. I usually brew those in late winter.

Although I'm kegging now anyway so it's a bit of a moot point.. . . .I might give it a go on a few bottles next time I brew a pilsner. If I make 25 litre batches I end up with surplus bottles. Handy for little experiments like that.

Sounds like a good situation to try it in. Remember the thread.

 

[Liam_snorkel]

how long are you lagering the beer before bottling? or do you jsut cold crash for a few days

6-8 weeks in the first two tries.

Next batch, the dunkel, will be eight weeks lagering in the bottle. I'll also carbonate a few before lagering,

So you lager for 6-8 weeks, bottle, then lager again for 8 weeks?

 

[yankinoz]

So you lager for 6-8 weeks, bottle, then lager again for 8 weeks?

No, I lager 6 weeks or more, carbonate and start drinking.

 

[barls]

I've lagered for 3 months as i was away with work. came home pulled it and bottled and it was fine. really clear.

 

[Jack of all biers]

No, I lager 6 weeks or more, carbonate and start drinking.

Yank, I like your Yiddish (Gezundheitsscheissenwirtschaft). I am a little confused by your thread. Correct me if I'm wrong. From what you have written, I take it that your experiment is to;

1. lager (in cube or similar) for 6 weeks,
2. bottle with sugars and cap,
3. place the bottles straight into a fridge to again lager for X weeks,
4. after which you will warm them to carbonation temperatures and leave for X days before fridging again for drinking

I would have thought the flavour/smoothness difference would be the same as if you lagered in the cube for 6 + X weeks then bottled and allow to carbonate? Maybe add that variable to your experiment by Lagering for 6 weeks, bottle half the batch and leave half in the lagering vessel. You could then lager half the bottles straight away and carbonate half straight away and fridge them once carbonated. At the end you could do a blind tasting with a few friends, who would enjoy the excuse to drink your beers no doubt! I would be surprised if there was a huge difference, but worth a crack if you have the energy to experiment. Let us know your results.

EDIT - Okay, I re-read your OP and realise you lager in the bottle only. May I suggest you consider lagering in a lagering vessel (I rack to cubes, so as to reduce head space, but some lager in the primary fermentation vessel, but I'd recommend racking if you have the equipment to do it). Of course this would not work if you don't have a fridge capable of holding such a vessel). Apologies for my initial miss-read of your OP.

 

[Hpal]

I read it as:
-Cold crash, prime and bottle.
- Keep bottles at lager temps for x weeks
-Raise temp to rouse yeast and let them carb the bottles
-Lager again then drink.

I wonder also if you could cold crash and bottle but not prime. Leave the un-primed bottles to lager. Then pop the cap, add sugar, recap and let it carb, just a thought .

 

[Jack of all biers]

I read it as:
-Cold crash, prime and bottle.
- Keep bottles at lager temps for x weeks
-Raise temp to rouse yeast and let them carb the bottles
-Lager again then drink.

I wonder also if you could cold crash and bottle but not prime. Leave the un-primed bottles to lager. Then pop the cap, add sugar, recap and let it carb, just a thought .

Yeah, I re-read the OP and realised I'd read wrong. Re poping the cap and adding sugar - This has no difference to the lagering factors as the yeast would not carbonate the sugars until brought up to temps around 10C plus. It would only increase the chance of uneven carbonation (loss of residual gas pressure obtained during primary fermentaion when opened to put sugars in) and of increasing the chances of adding infection. I would say the risks out weigh any benefits, not to mention going through double the amount of bottle caps.

YankinOz; The reason I suggest lagering in a lagering vessel is the purpose for lagering is to clean out the beer and allow it to smooth out any off flavours and hazes. The beer is then bottled/kegged off of the (for want of a better terminology) lager trub (often filtered [not me though]). This results in the bottled/kegged beer being clearer and allows the entire amount of live yeast to work on the entire brew at once (adds to consistency in the beer) rather than chancing a few bottles having different levels of yeast working on each bottle. I apologise if you know this and I'm telling you how to suck eggs. h34r: