Pitching On A Pat

[Murcluf]

I am considering pitching the wort of my next brew onto the yeast pat I of the beer that is currently in the fermenter. Want to use the same yeast again in my next brew thought it would be just as easy to drop the wort straight on the fresh one or should just scoop out a couple of cups after I has siphined off the beer? Anyone have experience on this one, like to know the + & - 's of going down this track. Thought it might be quicker then building a starter from scratch.

 

[Mearesy]

I did this with my last 2 brews. Havent tasted them yet, but fermentation started within 20mins and all seemed to go well! Best bet would be to pitch a bigger, darker beer onto the first brews yeast cake.

Ie. I brewed a 4% english pale ale and then pitched a 6% english vanilla porter onto that. Makes sense to me.

Cheers
Ben

 

[devo]

There is little or no problem so go for it....dump ya wort straight onto it. I just did 2 batches(100lt) of pale ale doing this very thing.

 

[Cocko]

I thought this was gonna be something about throwing yeast at Pistol or similar...... h34r:

Anyway, pitch on that pat my boy... pitch on that pat!!



As long as you are 180% percent there is no infection in there....



Cheers

 

[Murcluf]

As long as you are 180% percent there is no infection in there....

Cheers

That why I'm asking the question wasn't how much of an issue it may be???? but according to the replys so far it's looking positive

 

[Adamt]

Apart from infections carrying over, you are also overpitching, for whch I guess the main issue is a clean yeast profile... this could be an issue if you're looking for a particular yeast character.

 

[Bribie G]

I've only ever pitched onto a yeast cake once, (Ringwood with a dark mild) as there was very little 'tidemark' of dried on crud at the top area of the fermenter, and I decided on the spur of the moment to try the method, but it turned out disappointingly muddy and fruity and probably overpitched and attenuating too quickly.

 

[Cocko]

I brew 100L batches OR 4 cubes at a time...

ONLY time I pitch on a PAT [we are talking trub OR yeast cake here yeah?] is with the same brew, same boil.. mainly to save on cleaning, yeast and TIME! I know it will be finished sooner if I need to fill a keg... That said, whenever I pitch onto a 'pat' and leave it in the primary for 2+ weeks, I end up with a great, clear, clean beer.... may just be placebo or similar but I have had a few say the same.

Anyway, 2c, Try it and see what happens maybe......

 

[Gavo]

I have pitched straight onto the yeast cake before with no discernable issues. One big thing is to be sure you can keep the temp down as it may just like to warm up quite a bit with the large amount of yeast that you are starting with.

Gavo.

 

[RdeVjun]

Yep, as per gavo and other posters, it will in all likelihood go beserk as it is an enormous overpitch, so be prepared for things like overattenution, an odd flavour profile and for it to generate quite a lot of heat as the SG plummets, keep a close eye on it from heat side of things. I had a batch of 1469 ESB 'pitched' like this which was done and dusted within 3 days and I was surprised it didn't climb out of the fermenter, it was threatening however. The beer was OK but I don't make a habit of doing this, bone idle though I am...

 

[Greg Lawrence]

What if the beer currently in the fermenter has been dry hopped?
Im in the same situation. I Have an IPA to be kegged today (sitting on a US-05 cake) and a porter in the cube.
The IPA has been dry hopped for 5 days.
Will the hops still have any flavour left in them that will effect the porter?

Edit Sp

 

[Fourstar]

Apart from infections carrying over, you are also overpitching, for whch I guess the main issue is a clean yeast profile... this could be an issue if you're looking for a particular yeast character.

Don't overpitch as Adamt noted.

A simple way to repitch yeast (this is assuming you are doing a batch of approximatly 1.050 OG and 23L~) is to get a sanitised measuring cup and collect 1/2 cup of slurry for an ale or 1 cup of slurry for a lager. This will give you a relativly accurate pitching rate that wont be excessivly under/over pitching.

 

[raven19]

Don't overpitch as Adamt noted.

A simple way to repitch yeast (this is assuming you are doing a batch of approximatly 1.050 OG and 23L~) is to get a sanitised measuring cup and collect 1/2 cup of slurry for an ale or 1 cup of slurry for a lager. This will give you a relativly accurate pitching rate that wont be excessivly under/over pitching.

+1. This is the method I use when reusing Yeast Trub / Slurry.

you can refridgerate the slurry, letting the beer come to the top - give this a taste, if it tastes ok then you should be fine to pitch it.

 

[Nick JD]

Sanitize a stubbie.

When you have filled your last bottle with beer (and you don't think you can get another from the fermenter), pickup up the fermenter and do the Twist, you know, like you did last summer. Then twist again, because twisting time is here.

Put your fermenter down because you look like grandpa at a party doing that old school dancing.

Now fill your stubbie (I use a 300ml PET coke bottle) with the milky crud that comes out the tap. Cap it and mark it with yeast type and brew type, and fridge it.

I've found zero issues up to the 3rd generation. Possible issues after this, and definate issues past 5 generations.

The day you are brewing, take the correct yeast stubbie from the fridge and let it come up to room temp (if it's a 35 degree day, crack it when it's about 12 degrees). Crack it, pour off the clear beer at the top and taste it ... if good, pour it in. Put it this way - if all the bottles you bottled are fine and tasty then you can be almost certain that the bottled trub under the same conditions is also fine ... but still taste the clear beer on top, just to be sure. And no, don't drink it off the top of the stubbie!

Cost: $0.00c. Pitching rate: about right.

EDIT: in your big book of brews, keep track of the generations. With five yeast types and a few generations it's impossible to remember what's what without good yeast accounting. I chuck the trub at the 3rd generation nowadays - but remember that you can always bottle two bottles of trub when you're bottling. This will half the time to get to 3 generations - or maybe it'll be x squared? My brain hurts.

 

[Greg Lawrence]

Sanitize a stubbie.

When you have filled your last bottle with beer (and you don't think you can get another from the fermenter), pickup up the fermenter and do the Twist, you know, like you did last summer. Then twist again, because twisting time is here.

Put your fermenter down because you look like grandpa at a party doing that old school dancing.

Now fill your stubbie (I use a 300ml PET coke bottle) with the milky crud that comes out the tap. Cap it and mark it with yeast type and brew type, and fridge it.

I've found zero issues up to the 3rd generation. Possible issues after this, and definate issues past 5 generations.

The day you are brewing, take the correct yeast stubbie from the fridge and let it come up to room temp (if it's a 35 degree day, crack it when it's about 12 degrees). Crack it, pour off the clear beer at the top and taste it ... if good, pour it in. Put it this way - if all the bottles you bottled are fine and tasty then you can be almost certain that the bottled trub under the same conditions is also fine ... but still taste the clear beer on top, just to be sure. And no, don't drink it off the top of the stubbie!

Cost: $0.00c. Pitching rate: about right.

EDIT: in your big book of brews, keep track of the generations. With five yeast types and a few generations it's impossible to remember what's what without good yeast accounting. I chuck the trub at the 3rd generation nowadays - but remember that you can always bottle two bottles of trub when you're bottling. This will half the time to get to 3 generations - or maybe it'll be x squared? My brain hurts.

How long can you keep these in the fridge?

By the way, I just kegged 2 beers and pitched on the pats/cake with both.
Both are bubbling away after 30 minutes. The wheat has really taken off. I will need to keep an eye on that one.

 

[thanme]

I think I read somewhere that you can store it up to 6 months?? Don't quote me on that though.

I'd also like to know if this is ok with dry hopped beer? I've read that hops in wort too long can cause grassiness. Is it assumed that there isn't going to be that much mixed in with the slurry?

 

[floppinab]

I think I read somewhere that you can store it up to 6 months?? Don't quote me on that though.

I'd also like to know if this is ok with dry hopped beer? I've read that hops in wort too long can cause grassiness. Is it assumed that there isn't going to be that much mixed in with the slurry?

I wouldn't let it go six months, I've heard 2 months with success but I'd reckon that's pushing it, not more than 1 month to be safe. Risks of course are associated with infections slowly getting hold over time, even in a very cold and sealed environment. And, given the yeast is dieing off over that time, introducing a lot of dead yeast into your wort and associated off flavours.

 

[OzBeer_MD]

Great thread! Curious title though. I thought it was a Trub or yeast cake. To me 'Pat' is the thing I trod in at a friends farm many years ago.

2 bobs

 

[argon]

Sanitize a stubbie.

When you have filled your last bottle with beer (and you don't think you can get another from the fermenter), pickup up the fermenter and do the Twist, you know, like you did last summer. Then twist again, because twisting time is here.

Put your fermenter down because you look like grandpa at a party doing that old school dancing.

Now fill your stubbie (I use a 300ml PET coke bottle) with the milky crud that comes out the tap. Cap it and mark it with yeast type and brew type, and fridge it.

I've found zero issues up to the 3rd generation. Possible issues after this, and definate issues past 5 generations.

The day you are brewing, take the correct yeast stubbie from the fridge and let it come up to room temp (if it's a 35 degree day, crack it when it's about 12 degrees). Crack it, pour off the clear beer at the top and taste it ... if good, pour it in. Put it this way - if all the bottles you bottled are fine and tasty then you can be almost certain that the bottled trub under the same conditions is also fine ... but still taste the clear beer on top, just to be sure. And no, don't drink it off the top of the stubbie!

Cost: $0.00c. Pitching rate: about right.

EDIT: in your big book of brews, keep track of the generations. With five yeast types and a few generations it's impossible to remember what's what without good yeast accounting. I chuck the trub at the 3rd generation nowadays - but remember that you can always bottle two bottles of trub when you're bottling. This will half the time to get to 3 generations - or maybe it'll be x squared? My brain hurts.

Honestly the timing of ths thread is amazing. I plan to pitch on the yeast cake for the first time tonight. I'll definately take a few samples of yeast for later use with this method. Thanks for the info Nick. I like to split batches and use different yeasts, so doing this will save me a bit of coin each time.

 

[cubbie]

Have a look at this http://www.mrmalty.com/pitching.php - Down the bottom repitching yeast. As suggested it recommends taking some slurry and making a starter - not just dumping onto the yeast cake.

In terms of storage I have stored yeast for well over 6months, in fact I would have gone over 12 months. Make sure you make a healthy starter and you should be fine.
I take very small samples off my starters and store them in the fridge (20ml).