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citizensnips

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Hi guys, planning on making my first big all grain beer in the next week or so. Its an IPA and hopefully going to be around 7.5% with an OG of 1.070 using US-05. I've been reading a bit in how to brew and around and have basically gathered I need something in the ball park of 200 billion yeast cells for a happy fermentation. My problem is with one sachet of us 05 I'll have about 65 bill which means creating about a 3 litre starter of 1.040 to get it up to scratch. My main question is that I want to try and avoid having to add 3 litres of extract beer to my all grain batch so how can I go about this in the best possible way? I was thinking I could buy more dry yeast but its already too late for that plus its expensive. I also considered letting the starter ferment out and then decanting the liquid of the top leaving the slurry to pitch, even possibly put in the fridge to let it settle out?? or can that only be done for lagers? does it defeat the purpose of the starter letting it go dormant? I also read it can be a problem using extract yeast starter for an all grain batch due to flavours and what not, John Palmer recommending that it should be left to ferment out before pitching if thats the case.
What do all you guys do or find that works well for you?
Cheers
eddy
 

Diesel80

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why is it too late to get more dry yeast? From your OP it appears you have not brewed yet?
Starters appear to not be recommended for dry yeast.
If you do a starter yes you can ferment it and decant beer off to before pitching.


cheers,
D80

edit: i extract for starters. no flavour issues with a starter up to 2L in a single batch. never brewed a 1.070 beer though.
 

felten

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Its usually common practice not to use a starter with dried yeast. I would recommend just buying another packet.

Not sure on your numbers, have you tried plugging your info into here? http://www.mrmalty.com/calc/calc.html under the dried yeast tab.


If you do make a starter anyway, it is recommended to decant the spent beer and just pitch the yeast slurry. No harm in putting the starter in the fridge to help it settle out.
 

mje1980

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Make a standard strength beer with one pack, then pitch your big beer on the yeast cake. I do that for big US IIPA's and it works well.
 

citizensnips

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felten said:
Its usually common practice not to use a starter with dried yeast. I would recommend just buying another packet.

Not sure on your numbers, have you tried plugging your info into here? http://www.mrmalty.com/calc/calc.html under the dried yeast tab.


If you do make a starter anyway, it is recommended to decant the spent beer and just pitch the yeast slurry. No harm in putting the starter in the fridge to help it settle out.
Cheers for the link felten. I plugged the numbers in and it says I only need 1.3 11g dry packs of yeast for the batch. That just doesn't seem right, there is not 200 billion yeast cells in one pack of yeast.........is there? I'll happily be proved wrong but yeah not too sure about it.
 

KaiTroester

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I think there is some debate on how many viable cells one can expect from dry yeast. Some claim 20 Billion per gram while others say its only 15 Billion. Some of the manufacturers guarantee only ~6 Billion per gram. I haven't done enough testing to enter this debate with my own data. Starters for dry yeast are generally not recommended, especially if you want to grow only a little (less than 2x) more since you'll be wasting a lot of the yeast's reserves. But I think it can be done, though.

I like the idea of the smaller beer.

Kai
 

JDW81

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If you're using US-05 chuck in a few packs. Dry yeast is designed not to need a starter. If the yeast calculator says you need 200 billion cells and there is 65 billion in one pack, use three and you'll be sweet.

JD
 

mje1980

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The last few 7-8% IIPAs I've done have been pitched onto whole yeast cakes, last one was 10%. All have fermented beautifully, and attenuated as expected.
 

Nick JD

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While pitching rates are very important, IMO the one time you can underpitch by a little bit is in an 1.070 IPA.

The flavours associated with underpitching will be buried under all the hops and malty goodness.

My only concern would be from a highish FG ... but if you're slightly underpitching into a well-oxygenated wort you're doing way more favours to your yeast than pitching the perfect cell count into an oxygen starved wort.

So, yeah - what's your O2 method?
 

felten

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eddy22 said:
Cheers for the link felten. I plugged the numbers in and it says I only need 1.3 11g dry packs of yeast for the batch. That just doesn't seem right, there is not 200 billion yeast cells in one pack of yeast.........is there? I'll happily be proved wrong but yeah not too sure about it.
The yeast book (Jamil and Chris White), and Dr. Clayton Cone all say 20 billion per gram is accurate, that's good enough for me.

Also if the calculator was causing everyone that uses it to underpitch massively, then I think it would have come up by now.
 

Spacecapsule

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If you live new Keg King Sprinvale, they sell US-05 in 15g packets.

1 pack should have you close to the correct pitch rate (based off Mr Malty)
 

KaiTroester

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Here is a table from a paper titled "Practical Use Of Dried Yeast in the Brewing Industry". I used to have a on-line link for this paper but that link went 404.

This table shows the viable cell counts per gram from different dried yeasts. Just another data point to make the topic even more confusing :)

driedYeastCellCounts.gif
 

citizensnips

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For oxygen I just shake the hell out of it in the fermenter. I'll just give it an extra special shake and pitch two packets, thanks a lot for the replies. Much apreictaed.
Cheers
 

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