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Jase

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Hi There,

I'm in the process of setting up for AG, and I scored some copper from work, old coil just laying around. I tried bending it around a keg last thursday, and after going around once, the pipe kinked. Today I tried annealing it over a dual fuel stove, and still no luck, in fact, the kink has some little holes in it, so I've had to start again. (At least I've got some pickup tunes for the MLT and boiler).

I am going to try the third, and last, option of a pipe bender. Only thing is I think the pipe is about 5/8" (need get some verniers (sp?) from work to check). Where can I get some pipe benders from for that size copper?

Cheers,
Jase
 

Black Dog Brewery

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Hi Jase,

From what I have seen when the plumber has been around, they used a thick spring that slides inside the tube so when you heat and bend it, it keeps the shape without kinking the copper. Im sure there are other ways of doing it but it worked when I saw it done. Im guessing you could get one of these from a plumbing supply shop or big hardware shop.


BDB
 

Kramer

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Supercheap auto often has them on special, they aren't too bad they come with various dies up to 1".

Can't remeber the price though.
 

Fingerlickin_B

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Hit up your local Snap On Tools guy for a Blue Point (cheap version of Snap On tools) pipe bender.

My mate has one and I've used it to bend many sizes of copper tubing, including 5/8" for fuel lines in modified cars...so long as you take your time and bend section-by-section these will do a fairly smooth full 180deg bend in around 8cm ;)

*edit* - A bit more expensive than SuperCheap ones mentoned above, but you WILL notice the difference :D

Not the clearest picture I'll admit, but a good indication of what you can do with a quality bender nonetheless:


PZ.
 

OCC

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hey jase when you say you heated it up did you heat all around the pipe if so that is why it kinked,i'm no plumber an electrician in fact an when we heat bend conduit we only heat the outside of the bend and this greatly reduces the chance of kinking ,but a bending spring would proably be your best bet.... occ
 

Fingerlickin_B

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OCC said:
we heat bend conduit we only heat the outside of the bend and this greatly reduces the chance of kinking
[post="76639"][/post]​
This might work fine for PVC conduit, but doing that with copper will result in "flattening" of the outside edge...not good :(

*another edit* - What wall thickness is the tubing? This may be your main problem...your bend radius seems quite wide and I wouldn't see any problem hand-bending fairly thick-wall tube to suit...

PZ.
 

ozbrewer

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jase to me it sounds like you have hard drawn copper, its just not worth mucking around with if you want to bend it, and keep it neat


go to a scrap metal yard, you will find a heap of soft drawn copper thet is easy to bent around a keg........
 

warrenlw63

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Watch the bending springs. They've got a nasty habit of wanting to stay in the tube after you've bent it. Do it carefully. :blink:

Warren -
 

timmy

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warrenlw63 said:
Watch the bending springs. They've got a nasty habit of wanting to stay in the tube after you've bent it. Do it carefully. :blink:

Warren -
[post="76646"][/post]​
not if you put them on the outside
 

OCC

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ah timmy took the words right outta my mouth !!!!
 

Borret

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Can we revisit your first method of trying to coil this copper. If it is coiled I am still guessing it is annealed. All drawn metal work harden so in order for them to coil it properly it would have been anealed to a degree. Anyway- Are you just trying to wrap it round the keg with your hands or something else. Try laying the keg on it's side and basically rolling the copper up onto it like you would roll a rug up (except keeping the coils side by side instead of on top of each other). Even do it on a rug or piece of thin foam to stop deformation and flattening to the outside of the coil from a hard surface. This way you can apply constant even down pressure on the pipe as you roll it which will avoid the kinks from point loading. If the copper is coiled already as you say basically sit the coil against the leg of a table to support it as you unroll it of the coil (ala letting the string out on your kite) and onto your keg. This way the copper has the smallest chance of work hardening and is being recoiled in the same orientation that it was coiled.
Sorry if this seems more oversimplified than it needs to be but it may help you get a better finish.

Cheers

Borret
 

warrenlw63

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timmy said:
warrenlw63 said:
Watch the bending springs. They've got a nasty habit of wanting to stay in the tube after you've bent it. Do it carefully. :blink:

Warren -
[post="76646"][/post]​
not if you put them on the outside
[post="76648"][/post]​
Obviously there's an easier way than an inside bender. :blink:

Warren -
 

shoobs

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I have heard that filling tubing with sand before bending it stops it from kinking and/or flattening.

You must seal the ends though.

Matt.
 

Jase

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Hi There,

I made the mistake of straightening some of the coil first. (Don't ask why, cause I don't know why).

Anyhow, I was talking to a bloke at work, and he suggested that I bring the pipe around to his house, and he'll put the oxy over it, so we can anneal it again.

Thanks for all your advice.

Cheers,
Jase
 

timmy

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It's only copper pipe.

Don't roll the pipe around the keg. roll the keg around the pipe.

If inexperienced with internal bending springs, don't use them. try external springs.

If you don't know the difference, don't touch either of them. You'll end up in trouble and ruin a perfectly good spring. Do some research.

If the pipe is supplied straight, its hard drawn. No amount of annealing will make it malleable. If it's coiled, bend to your hearts content.

If you stuff it up,

Someone before you stuffed it up.
 

kungy

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Annealing hard drawn pipe is possible. For short lengths ie 30 cm for a pickup tube in the boiler, i fire up the weber, put the length in the coals let it cook for 30 minutes, then close all vents and let the fire go out until the weber is totally cool, so two hour cool down.

Definately not really feasible for larger lengths in a weber though

Additionally i was under the impression once a pipe is annealed, it can't lose its "annealment" just by bending it or the like

Will
 

ausdb

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kungy said:
Additionally i was under the impression once a pipe is annealed, it can't lose its "annealment" just by bending it or the like
Copper tubing will work harden again once you bend it a few times. Is it really 5/8" as thats not a normal plumbing size. 5/8" soft drawn copper will give you two chances to bend it before it work hardens too much to be worked by hand. The first chance is when you unroll the coil, best done by placing the free end on the ground on a hard surface and resting your foot on it then unrolling the copper out along the ground. The second chance is when you go to bend it and an external spring is helpful here. If using an external spring then the trick to getting the spring off is to twist one end of the spring in the direction which makes the coils open up slightly so you can slide it along.

What are you trying to make with it?

5/8" can be coiled around a keg or gas bottle, as borret said get a start around the keg then roll it up along the ground

HTH ausdb
 

Kenny

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The filling with sand ive used for plastic conduit and it worked very nicely!
never tried it with copper pipe before though.

Bending springs are pretty easy to use on copper pipe.. but if ur being a dickhead u can bend the spring its self... :D so b carefull there.. and i i always have some cable attached to the spring to get it out easily... the copper pipe on the roll would solve your problem if u dont mind paying a bit for it... its pretty expensive i think.

Good luck, Kenny
 

Borret

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Sorry this is getting on my goat.
ALL drawn metal is work hardened as it is drawn hence there is no such thing as soft drawn. It doesn't happen. In fact if it is drawn a couple of times to reduce size in stages from it's orignal or the billet it will be annealed a few times as part of the process. Drawing is the process, soft and hard is the final state.
Copper that is coiled will have ben anealed after the drawing process and then coiled. So hitting it with the oxy, unless you've work hardened it again will have little effect.
Just roll it up on the keg if you are trying to make an IC.

Borret
 

timmy

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Borret said:
Sorry this is getting on my goat.
ALL drawn metal is work hardened as it is drawn hence there is no such thing as soft drawn. It doesn't happen. In fact if it is drawn a couple of times to reduce size in stages from it's orignal or the billet it will be annealed a few times as part of the process. Drawing is the process, soft and hard is the final state.
Copper that is coiled will have ben anealed after the drawing process and then coiled. So hitting it with the oxy, unless you've work hardened it again will have little effect.
Just roll it up on the keg if you are trying to make an IC.

Borret
[post="76996"][/post]​
Annealed copper refrigeration tube is known as and sold as soft drawn, whether you want it to be called that or not.
By definition its Soft, Drawn tube. Note the comma.

Sorry to rant but its just worth getting upset about.
 

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