Pilsner And Temperature Control

[shanew]

With temps dropping it's getting closer to a stable 12 deg. under the house so it's time to start thinking about pilsner recipes.

The research I've done suggests that I should brew at 10 - 12 C until primary fermentation is complete, then rest @ 18 C for 2 days, then into secondary at around 4 C for a couple more weeks.

Questions (assuming using W34/70 or a liquid bohemian lager yeast):
1/ do you agree with the temp plan above for a czech pilsner style?
2/ If I don't lager at 4 C will the resulting beer suffer dramatically? (Will 12 C do the job?)

The temp under the house remains pretty stable but I have no fridge set up for maintaining temps as low as 4 C.

All advice greatly appreciated!

Yoz

P.S. and while you're here, I'd love to hear your tips on the ultimate chzech pilsner extract recipe. There's a wide variety of recipes about - most important seems to be the use of an appropriate yeast and plenty of Saaz hops??

 

[matti]

Have a look at at this thread http://www.aussiehomebrewer.com/forum/inde...showtopic=15514

A for Kit and Kilo W34/70 is a great yeast to go with.
To lager at 12 will do no harm. I have never lagered a KK.

Remember that your dealing with a yeast which prefer cooler temps and that when you carbing up you don't have to raise the temp to room temp. It will carb up at 12 degrees and and be fine.
It takes a wee bit longer like 6 weeks and that is ideal for allowing the yeast to do its job in the bottle.

I recall making one a 2 years ago with no lagering period but allowed it to bottle condition at temps around 8-12 degress. No probs.

 

[shanew]

Have a look at at this thread http://www.aussiehomebrewer.com/forum/inde...showtopic=15514

A for Kit and Kilo W34/70 is a great yeast to go with.
To lager at 12 will do no harm. I have never lagered a KK.

Remember that your dealing with a yeast which prefer cooler temps and that when you carbing up you don't have to raise the temp to room temp. It will carb up at 12 degrees and and be fine.
It takes a wee bit longer like 6 weeks and that is ideal for allowing the yeast to do its job in the bottle.

I recall making one a 2 years ago with no lagering period but allowed it to bottle condition at temps around 8-12 degress. No probs.

Thanks Matti! Great thread and just the info I was looking for. :beer:

 

[Adamt]

The colder the lagering temperature, the faster the lagering process proceeds (or so I believe). Best temperatures are below 4C. Possibly the best way to do this is just to chuck it in your food fridge (if you have room), a handy way to fit a brew in there is with a water cube/water jerry can, which you can pick up from hardwares for $10-$20.

 

[braufrau]

So what would happen if I fermented a lager in the house where its about a constant 11C these
days, moved it into the lounge for a couple of days where the T is higher, at least in the evenings,
and then chucked it out behind the shed where the sun never shines and T oscillates between
4 and 12 ?? For a couple of weeks.

I'd probably get a fermenter full of millipedes but assuming that didn't happen would I end
up with something like lager?

 

[matti]

Sounds like good plan
The thermal mass will keep the temp more constant than that.
Plus if can can insulate it a wee bit, you get a better result again bf
matti

 

[Back Yard Brewer]

P.S. and while you're here, I'd love to hear your tips on the ultimate chzech pilsner extract recipe. There's a wide variety of recipes about - most important seems to be the use of an appropriate yeast and plenty of Saaz hops??

I have just bottled a Jovial Monk Czech Pilsner ( www.jovialmonk.com.au ) Primary for 19 days @ 9-14 degrees the last 2 days @ 18-20.
Wyeast 2278 (Czech Pilsner) An additional 10gms of saaz was added in the last 10 mins of the boil. Dry hopped at 1.5gms per litre @ 4 degrees for 24 days then bottled. Tasted not to bad. I used a can of Thomas Coopers brewmaster selection Pilsner.

Doghouse Czech Pilsner. This one is an extract brew.
3.2kg coopers LME
66gms Saaz 3.6% AA 60mins
40gms Saaz 3.6% AA 10mins
1.5gms per ltr Saaz 3.6% AA dry hopping
1/2 Whirlfloc Tablet 10 mins
225 gms Munich Malt
115 gms Crystal Malt (light)
Saflager s23
Crush grains and steep at 68 degrees for 30 mins. Remove the grain and add the LME and bring it to the boil. I made my boil up to 10ltrs. Then chilled the wort and topped it to a SG of 1047. This is my first shot at extract brewing. I have just tasted the ferment after 11 days and was pleasantly suprised at the flavour compared to the Jovial Monk. It has more of a full body taste. I will be dry hopping this one as well and lagering it for aroung 2-3 weeks.

BYB

 

[brettprevans]

put this down on sunday

Muntons Connoisseurs Export Pilsner,
2kg of #62 pilsner converter kit
0.5Kg of Muntons Light Dry Malt Extract,
5-10g Saaz -1 min boil, 10min steep.
will dry hop a bit more saaz after 1 week.
Pitched yeast (2xSaflager -S23) when wort was about 12C. cooled down further to about 10C.

I was planning to follow Ross's advice re lagering here (post #36). Except Im going to bottle not keg.

doesnt look like there is any action yet. no bubbling or action with yeast. slightly worried myself, but figure it should be ok. I hope!

Also just had to tip fermentor on its side to unscrew the tap as it wasnt on properly and leaking a bit (DOH!). Hope that has screwed this up either,

 

[ham2k]

The colder the lagering temperature, the faster the lagering process proceeds (or so I believe). Best temperatures are below 4C. Possibly the best way to do this is just to chuck it in your food fridge (if you have room), a handy way to fit a brew in there is with a water cube/water jerry can, which you can pick up from hardwares for $10-$20.

One question I have is, how do you bottle from a water cube/water jerry can?

I was planning to lager a pilsener for a couple of weeks in an old fresh wort container but I am unclear how to properly get the pilsener gently back into the fermenter for bulk priming.

Surely if you pour into a fermenter for bulk priming it will oxidise and potentially reverse some of the effects of the lagering process.

Is there something I am missing? I have never done this before so maybe the answer is obvious.

 

[brettprevans]

One question I have is, how do you bottle from a water cube/water jerry can?

I was planning to lager a pilsener for a couple of weeks in an old fresh wort container but I am unclear how to properly get the pilsener gently back into the fermenter for bulk priming.

Surely if you pour into a fermenter for bulk priming it will oxidise and potentially reverse some of the effects of the lagering process.

Is there something I am missing? I have never done this before so maybe the answer is obvious.

my thoughts....
Doesnt your water cube have a tap? If so, just attach some food grade tubing and let it run back into the fermentor. so just the reverse of how you got it into the cube. or just maybe gentle mix bulk prim into cube and then put into bottles from cube.

 

[Back Yard Brewer]

Surely if you pour into a fermenter for bulk priming it will oxidise and potentially reverse some of the effects of the lagering process.

I am not sure how others do it but I syphon the liquid into another fermenter making sure the hose in the transfer container is submersed in the liquid.This prevents/minimises O2 pick up.
Make sure you don't put the hose to the bottom of the conditioning cube or you make pick up sediment which has settled on the bottom. I gradually watch the level and slowly submerse the hose as the level drops and when it is nearly empty carefully tilt the cube. I leave around 1/2 ltr behind most times as this normally gets a bit merky at the end.

BYB

 

[braufrau]

Do you bottle condition lagers? And for how long?

 

[SJW]

Do you bottle condition lagers? And for how long?

If you bottle beers then you will be "bottle conditioning". I guess it all comes back to that infamous thread about what is a lager. I think you can still brew a Lager, ferment at say 15 degC and then either condition in the bottle or condition in a secondary vessel or COLD CONDITION in a secondary at 1 or 2 deg C. I just did a Vienna Lager, fermented at 7 deg C then racked to a secondary and left it there for a week at 15 -20 deg C then bottled. In this case I have still brewed a Lager it just has not been cold conditioned. But I think I will get the same or similar results as CC'ing by storing the bottles in the fridge for an extended time, after they have had time to Carb up!.
Now I did not CC my Vienna as I needed the fridge to ferment a Doppelbock in. Now with this one I will ferment at 7 until I get down near 1.030 or 1.040 then rack, and hold at 15 until fermentation is complete, @ 1.020, Then I will CC for a few weeks.
Everyone does it different, but I think the important think is to FERMENT COOL!

STEVE

 

[braufrau]

If you bottle beers then you will be "bottle conditioning". I guess it all comes back to that infamous thread about what is a lager.

<snip>

STEVE

Thanks Steve,

:blink: Too confusing for a poor ale girl!

Lets say I ferment for a week at ~11C. Two days at ~20C. Rack. (or do I rack before the diacetyl rest)
2 weeks at 4-12. Then bottle and then what? With an ale I'd condition at T > 18C for 2 weeks to
make bubbles and then I would condition, preferably at cellar T for 0 - 10 weeks.

So what do I do with a lager? Condition at ~11C? for 2 weeks?

:unsure:

BF

 

[SJW]

Yes! :blink:
It wont matter. Just ferment @ 12 deg C. Until it has finished. No need to diacetyl rest when it has fermented out at that temp. Then Rack to another fermenter for a while if u want. But unless you are going to Cold Condition I would just bottle them. And after a couple of weeks just store some in the fridge and try them in a couple of months and compare them with some that were not stored (cold conditioned) in the fridge.

Steve

 

[braufrau]

Yes! :blink:
It wont matter. Just ferment @ 12 deg C. Until it has finished. No need to diacetyl rest when it has fermented out at that temp. Then Rack to another fermenter for a while if u want. But unless you are going to Cold Condition I would just bottle them. And after a couple of weeks just store some in the fridge and try them in a couple of months and compare them with some that were not stored (cold conditioned) in the fridge.

Steve

Thanks Steve. That makes sense.

This cold weather is tempting me to make jazzmans lager recipe.

 

[Trough Lolly]

Apologies for drifting slightly off topic, but this is another reason why kegging is so handy. You can rack out of the fermenter into one large bottle / keg so you bulk cold condition. My garage here in Canberra is hovering between 8 and 11C so I can ferment and lager my lagers in the keg for all winter and enjoy smooth lagers during spring and possibly summer if I'm not too thirsty!!
Cheers,
TL