Pack Not Fully Swelled

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sluggerdog

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Hi, I smacked a pack yesterday morning and it has only partly swelled by now, I know I should be waiting until it is finished but I want to brew on sunday and need to get my starters going so I was wondering if it would be ok to use a partly swelled pack?

It has definatly swelled a little but just not all the way and also it does say on the back of the pack that it is not necessary for the pack to be swelled before use.

What do you guys think?

It is a XL pack with 100 billions cells.

Cheers
 

JasonY

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How old is the pack slugger? I just smacked one that was 12months old (reduced price stock) and it took 5 days to swell but fired up none the less. If they are < 3months old I have found them to be very fast.

In any event I am sure you will be fine to put it into a starter now, perhaps start with only 500ml and airate it well.
 

sluggerdog

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Thanks JasonY, it is 4-5 months old.

OK here is another question, why is it a good idea to start with a little starter (500 mls) then step it up, why not just make a 3 litre starter first up?
 

warrenlw63

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G'day Slugger,

If time's not on your side like you said and you're brewing Sunday. I'd go for the 3 litre starter or even 2. Should be fermenting strongly by Sunday. Just make sure the starter is a similar profile to your beer.

Warren -
 

sluggerdog

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Cheers Warren, I have just made a 2 litre starter, then tomorrow I will pour some of this into 5 little bottles for keepers in the fridge and then re-setup what I have left, should be all good by sunday arvo/night when I pitch.

Cheers!

Making a budvar clone with wyeast 2000 budvar (Thanks Justin!)
 

JasonY

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Slugger I asked the same not long ago. All about making sure that the yeast have a large count relative to the wort so no bugs can get a foot hold before the yeast take off.

As long as you clean everything well it shouldn't be an issue, I generally start from 1L anyway.
 

sluggerdog

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Thanks JasonY, makes sence.

Recipe below, looking forward to it, my first brew with my converted kegs so I can finally boil the full amount!


=====
BeerSmith Recipe Printout - www.beersmith.com
Recipe: Budvar Clone 00003
Style: Premium American Lager
TYPE: All Grain

Recipe Specifications
--------------------------
Batch Size: 20.00 L
Boil Size: 26.46 L
Estimated OG: 1.051 SG
Estimated Color: 8.9 EBC
Estimated IBU: 22.8 IBU
Brewhouse Efficiency: 60.0 %
Boil Time: 70 Minutes

Ingredients:
------------
Amount Item Type % or IBU
5.00 kg Pilsner (2 Row) Aus (3.0 EBC) Grain 90.9 %
0.25 kg CaraPils (10.0 EBC) Grain 4.5 %
0.25 kg Munich Malt (25.0 EBC) Grain 4.5 %
20.00 gm Saaz [3.30%] (40 min) Hops 7.4 IBU
20.00 gm Saaz [3.30%] (30 min) Hops 6.5 IBU
20.00 gm Saaz [3.30%] (15 min) Hops 4.2 IBU
20.00 gm Saaz [3.30%] (10 min) Hops 3.0 IBU
20.00 gm Saaz [3.30%] (70 min) (Mash Hop) Hops 1.7 IBU
1 Pkgs Budvar (Wyeast Labs #2000) [Starter 100 mlYeast-Lager
 

Scratchy

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Hey Sluggerdog where can you get that Wyeasy #2000??

As a fan of Budvar I would love to get hold of some 2000 (assuming it will help me to make a a beer similar to Budvar).

Did you buy it in Bris somewhere?

Many Thanks.

AH
 

Justin

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Hi Slugger, how'd it go? New kegs and all that.

I was abit worried that it may not have swelled in time for your Sunday brew session. Probably should have smacked it down here before I sent it up ;), oh well.

Yes, you can use the pack before it swells, it's just nice to see a puffed up pack because you know your yeast is cranking along and healthy and in it's growth phase. For future reference (assuming you've brewed with it already), the idea is-as stated above-that you add the yeast into a small amount of starter so that effectively your cell count is really high. Because the yeast basically make an environment that is not really favourable to bacterial growth the sooner you can get the alc content up in the starter the better. That's why you step up starters, basically pitching generous amounts of yeast.

It's just that if you pitch straight into 3L the time taken to get to the inhibitory environment is a bit slower, thus allowing possible beasties to get established. However, if your super clean and your starting from a big wyeast pack this is less likely to happen. These big XL packs are supposed to be pitchable packs but I still recommend a starter for any brew, especially lager. Wyeast didn't always come in big packs, they used to be 50ml packs and a starter was essential. If your starting from a slant this is even more evident.

Anyway, keep it warm (ie. ale temps) and aerate as much as possible and you'll get a good strong starter.

FWIW, I'm just raising the temp on my schwarzbier for the diacetyl rest today. Also need to keg my bitter too becuase I was too lazy to do it on Sunday.

Cheers mate, hope it turns out well.
Justin
 

sluggerdog

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Justin said:
Hi Slugger, how'd it go? New kegs and all that.

I was abit worried that it may not have swelled in time for your Sunday brew session. Probably should have smacked it down here before I sent it up ;), oh well.

Yes, you can use the pack before it swells, it's just nice to see a puffed up pack because you know your yeast is cranking along and healthy and in it's growth phase. For future reference (assuming you've brewed with it already), the idea is-as stated above-that you add the yeast into a small amount of starter so that effectively your cell count is really high. Because the yeast basically make an environment that is not really favourable to bacterial growth the sooner you can get the alc content up in the starter the better. That's why you step up starters, basically pitching generous amounts of yeast.

It's just that if you pitch straight into 3L the time taken to get to the inhibitory environment is a bit slower, thus allowing possible beasties to get established. However, if your super clean and your starting from a big wyeast pack this is less likely to happen. These big XL packs are supposed to be pitchable packs but I still recommend a starter for any brew, especially lager. Wyeast didn't always come in big packs, they used to be 50ml packs and a starter was essential. If your starting from a slant this is even more evident.

Anyway, keep it warm (ie. ale temps) and aerate as much as possible and you'll get a good strong starter.

FWIW, I'm just raising the temp on my schwarzbier for the diacetyl rest today. Also need to keg my bitter too becuase I was too lazy to do it on Sunday.

Cheers mate, hope it turns out well.
Justin
[post="64352"][/post]​

Hi Justin, Cheers again for the donation!

The pack did not swell but I make the starter anyway on friday arvo (smacked thurs morning) by saturday I have high krausen so I split this up and the re-stepped the amount up again, by sunday arvo I had over 1 inch of krausen and a lot of yeast on the bottom so I was a happy camper, I ditched the top wort and pitched the slurry.

Thought I had an infection be it seems everything is ok (here: http://www.aussiehomebrewer.com/forum/inde...=0&#entry64347)


One thing Justin, how long did you ferment it at your 9C before raising it for your diacetyl rest? I am haping about 11 days should do it, then I will rest for 3 days at 18C and then rack and move into CC.


Cheers! :super:
 

Weizguy

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sluggerdog said:
<chopped> I ditched the top wort and pitched the slurry. </quote>

[post="64365"][/post]​
Ditched ? Surely U tasted it?

Seth :p
 

Justin

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Nice to hear things went ok Slugger, I haven't read that infection topic but I'll read it after writing this post.

Um. Brew was done on Monday last, so it's been a week and a day at about 8C. It's nearly finished, but will have to take a grav reading tonight to know specifically where its at, but judging by airlock speed it's nearly done. I tend not to take gravity readings much anymore. Once I have the OG, I leave it until its finished basically. I just use "The Force" to know. Nah really, when you can keep the temp really stable the air lock rate is a really good indication.

I used 1/2 a yeast cake from a previous lager, so there was stacks of yeast and fermentation is fairly quick when there is plenty of yeast around. I usually aim to do a diacetyl rest when there are only a few points to go to the estimated FG. This is so that the yeast are still active and haven't floculated out yet, making the mop up of diacetyl a bit quicker. They will still absorb it if you dont but I think I've read that they do it quicker and more effectively at warmer temps. I guess the logic of doing it just before the FG is reached is so that it gives you a definite point at which to raise the temp, basically so you dont decide to do your diacetyl rest 3 weeks from now (when the yeast have become dormant and floculated out).

Take a gravity reading or use the force, as long as it's towards the end you'd be fine.

Cheers mate.
Justin
 

sluggerdog

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I've been away for the past 3 days and have just got back.

I thought I would check out this brew and see how it was all going. I measured the gravity and found it is now sitting at 1017 (OG: 1045 EFG: 1013)

So now would be a good time to start my rest.. correct?

I am also a little unsure on this because it has only been in there for a week now at 11C, is this a little too fast or is it ok to ferment for a week and then rest for say 3 days then cold condition?

Airlock is still bubbling away nicely though.. not sure what the krausen looks like as yet.


EDIT: Thought I better take a look and see what the krausen is looking like, seems to prettty much disapeared, the surface is now just covered in bubbles. I have turned the thermostat up to 18C and will leave it at this temp for 3 days then rack and cold condition.


EDIT:
For those who were following the other thread I had about the funny looking yeast blobs I had, well it seems they have all disapeared, so looks like everything is on track.

Possible Infection Thread

Cheers for all the help!
 

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