Orval Clone

[Spork]

I would consider giving my left nut to be the judge's tasting that one!

I would also give your left nut to be the judge tasting this.

 

[manticle]

Appreciated all but my own nuts are working extremely well and I have no need for surplus.

 

[hsb]

Thanks. I'll add some to the boil to spread out the additions more. Are you just using plain sugar manticle? Or candi syrup?
Good to see there's plenty of other Belgians getting brewed, should get a thread going for them maybe. I'll check out your Duvel tribute thread in a bit, if it's half as good as the real thing then yum.

 

[manticle]

For pale beers, I use plain sugar (usually raw sugar as that's what's in the house but I have used dextrose too). For dubbels (not brewed one for ages and never made one I was happy with) and dark strongs (made one and I love it) I use the commercial dark syrup (d2 in my dark strong).

I used to make my own darker stuff but when I'm going to sit on something for a year, I'm happy to splash out the extra dosh to make it as good as I can.

 

[barls]

think i still have a bottle of your last sour from last years case swap mate. look forward to this years version.

 

[manticle]

OT: Not quite sure what this year's one will be. One's been there for a couple of years and I've forgotten what the hell it is.

Another is a citrus laden bretty old ale.

Need to sample them soon and decide which to put in and what, if anything, needs to be done to them.

 

[[email protected]]

Anyone got any experience using Brett B? Its my first time using this strain.

After a week in primary fermentation I ended up with 1.012. I took this down to 2c and racked, removing the yeast sediment.
Pitched the yeast sediment left from a Brett B starter and brought this back to 14c.
I note there was no apparent airlock activity (or very slow) in the starter (which I had for about 4 weeks) however the flavour was there and there was plenty of sediment to pitch. I should have taken a SG reading but I didnt. After 4 days Im not seeing any activity. Should I pitch another or just wait?

 

[brewtas]

Wait. You're not likely to see any activity, it'll just work away slowly. You'll probably get a pellicle forming after 1-3 weeks.

 

[ricardo]

Regarding the yeast i believe that the White Labs Bastogne that was released as a platinum strain in January is in fact Orval yeast.

I just made a Belgian Golden Strong with it and it definitely has similarities

 

[[email protected]]

Thanks brewtas. First time working with these strains. Quite reassuring to know this as it will make bottling more comfortable! Time to dry hop I think!

Yes, managed to get some of the Bastogne which is certainly used in Orval. What a beautiful yeast! Think this might become my new favourite Belgian yeast!

Theres some really helpful info here if anyone else is looking for more: http://forum.northernbrewer.com/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=40289&hilit=orval&start=15

I note Craftbrewer has some strisselspalt from 2008 which the Orval website claims they use. Cant wait to try this one.

 

[Jaded and Bitter]

Found this a while back - WYeast Orval recipe:

https://www.wyeastlab.com/hb_lambicbrewing.cfm

Just scroll down.

Personally not a huge fan of Orval, sometimes quite nice and funky, other times... Age doesnt seem to make a difference.

If there arn't a lot of dextrins left dont be coy about pitching a mixed strain in secondary.

 

[Spiesy]

Regarding the yeast i believe that the White Labs Bastogne that was released as a platinum strain in January is in fact Orval yeast.

I just made a Belgian Golden Strong with it and it definitely has similarities

Yep, that's what we've been told also.

 

[dr K]

There is an excellent article in a Zymurgy from a couple of years back by two Australian Brewers about their "Homage to Orval". They esentially reverse engineered Orval to create "Krorval". They made it using WLP 510 and various batches using various Brett strains with the intention of blending. The beer was highly applauded by Randy Mosher when he judged it in the Nationals (where it won first place) and so impressed Gordon Strong that he asked the brewers to write it up for Zymurgy.
You need to drink a bit of Orval though to appreciates the "gout d'Orval", read the Zymurgy article to be inspired then do it all again yourself.

K

 

[Fat Bastard]

So I did a search FFS and came up with this one... I have some WLP-510 Bastogne ale yeast, some Belgian Pilsener Malt (Dingemans) and can get an appropriate hop.

What else do I need to produce a reasonable Orval clone? Do I need to get a glass carboy (and add brett) and age for a year before bottling? Your experience would be appreciated here!

Cheers!

FB

 

[manticle]

From my reading orval is not typically aged before release although it will age well.
I also understand the brett is added at bottling - not sure what the original yeast is.
The website is helpful and there's BN/homebrew chef ep and recipe (or similar - going on memory only).
Finally - dry hopped with styrian goldings.
Might have the stats in BLAM somewhere if you can't find those.

 

[Fat Bastard]

Would be interested in seeing your BLAM version. I've seen the Clone Brews version (which doesn't seem right) and some "BLAM Inspired" versions on then net. I'm happy to change the grain/hops (More happy to change the hops than the grain as I have 25kg of Dingemanns) as I'm of the opinion that most of the character of this recipe comes from the yeast/brett and their handling. I was happily given an awful lot of swing top bottles, so If i can Brett condition in the bottle, I'd be more than chuffed!

 

[manticle]

OG: 1055
ABV: 6.8%
94% AA
IBU: 38
3 pale malts (not specified), 2 caramel malts.
Clear candy (I'd just go dex)- 16% of total fermentables.
Styrians and hallertauer.
High carbonate water, mash pH adjusted to 5.0.
Mash starts at 63, 72 rest for 20 minutes.
Hops at 40 minutes.
Fermentation from 14 to 22. Second fermentation at 15, dry hopped with styrians or east kent. Secondary yeast added including brett strain. Centrifuged then bottled with fresh yeast and priming sugar, bottled and matured for 5 weeks.
5vol co2 (sounds high but their bottles are very thick - personally I'd target less).

 

[mje1980]

Even just adding dregs to a simple Belgian blonde will give very good results. That orval brett flavour is very distinct and comes through nicely. I added some to an early saison I did ( fg 1.004 or something silly so no worries about bottle bombs, though I did carb high and in orval bottles ) and after a few weeks it was quite nice.

 

[manticle]

Also orval website suggests 90 minute boil prior to first hop addition. Go to the orval website and read the section on 'How orval is made' for more info. It's quite detailed.