Not boiling hop additions? Options?

[Jamesco]

Hi guys,

I started off doing small batch(10L) BIAB beers and recently because of work commitments have become increasingly time poor. I have started expirementing with unhopped extracts in order to try fit in brewing during the week while still being able to try out new hop combinations. The longest part of my brew day is boiling my hops ( in wort) and cooling down my wort.

This got me thinking to save extra time I could do a small 2l hop boils and then dilute it with the main batch of 10l to save time, or potentially skip the boil altogether and just steep enough hops at flame out temperatures to get my required IBU's.

I was hoping you guys could help out, are there any negatives to taste from skipping 60min-30min hop additions if I can still reach target IBU levels? and how do I calculate my IBU's when I dilute a smaller hop boil into a larger unhopped batch? Or is it possible to skip all boil hop additions, using a ton of hops at just under flameout temperatures and steeping? I'm only looking to add around 20-40 IBU's roughly.

 

[manticle]

To effectively isomerise and dissolve alpha acids to hit ibu targets, you really need to boil hops. You'll get some ibu concentration above 80 (not super efficient utilisation), very little below that.

Hops have other bitter compounds besides alpha acids but effective bittering really requires boiling.
Yes you can do smaller boils and dilute back. You can also look at no chill methods for reduction of chilling time including cube hopping. Some people combine shorter boils with no chill and cube hopping*

Another time saving option is getting set up to do larger batches but less often.

*Not a huge fan of short boils personally - boiling fills so many functions I prefer to give it the time it deserves.

 

[thylacine]

http://byo.com/hops/item/1122-mash-hopping-techniques

http://beersmith.com/blog/2008/11/11/best-hop-techniques-for-homebrewing/

 

[MHB]

You can buy Iso-Hop, its a pre-isomerised extract usually 30% Iso-Alpha W/V, there are a couple of other forms with names like Tetra Hop and Hydro Hop that are usually around 10%.
Too much information View attachment 101 - Beer Stabilisation part 1.pdf
Mark

 

[Danscraftbeer]

The few beers I've made with only late hops or cubed hops only weren't too good. Its something about longer hop boils that seem to have some kind of better blending with the malts. With extract you could just do a 10 minute boil and cube with a lot of hops. Let cool for a day. Pitch with yeast in fermenter the next day. But like I mentioned this didn't make good beer for me.

 

[pcmfisher]

The few beers I've made with only late hops or cubed hops only weren't too good. Its something about longer hop boils that seem to have some kind of better blending with the malts. With extract you could just do a 10 minute boil and cube with a lot of hops. Let cool for a day. Pitch with yeast in fermenter the next day. But like I mentioned this didn't make good beer for me.

I agree.

I have tried making an extract beer that instead if boiling for 60 mins I boiled for 20 mins with more hops to achieve the same bitterness.

To me the 20 min one had a harsher bittnerness. May be a cohumulone thing.

 

[Rod]

If you want hops for flavour , not bitterness these may help

https://www.craftbrewer.com.au/shop/default.asp?CID=13

I have considered using these for dry hopping

thought they could be added when bulk priming

have not tried them , have no idea if they are any good

you could be the sacrificial goat and report back

not cheap

the bottles are quoted at 5 ml or 1 teaspoon and supposed to do 2 batches

 

[Jamesco]

Thanks for the info guys. I started searching and reading into how hop oils interact in the boil and out of the boil ect. Needless to say I opened up a rabbit hole of information. On a side note a few months back I brewed an all grain galaxy smash where I moved most of the hops to the end/whirlpool and then dry hopped it afterwards. Aroma was beautiful, the taste wasn't though as it had an unpleasant sharp bitterness to it which I initially thought confirms what you guys are talking about with whirlpooling vs bittering hop additions. On second thought though it could also be the higher cohumulone content of Galaxy .

It seems other oils in hops contribute to the level and type of bitterness as well. Surprisingly even dry hops seem like they could add to the IBU level of a beer which I was surprised about(link here).

So increasing hop quantity at flame might drastically increase these oils while attempting to reach the same IBU contribution resulting in a higher or harsher bitterness.

It seems a smooth hop character may come from bittering additions added with lower levels of cohumulone earlier in the boil (theres an expiriment on that here). For example smaller hop amounts from low cohumelene(but high AA) varieties early in the boil to maximise AA conversion and minimize other hop oil bittering contributors. I'm just unsure what time I should be boiling for, hypothetically longer boils are better but I would love to save time.

I would like to test out those hop extract bottles but it seems what I want is iso-alpha oils for bittering which I think MHB mentioned.

Back to my question, does anyone have any information about why a longer boil makes for a better bitterness in a beer? I guess I would like to reduce my boil time in my extract but I'm not sure what magic number would be best to aim for, or if I should just stick with 60m? I think I will do 4L boils for a 10L batch in order to save on cooling time. I will also test out iso-alpha hop extract as well.

 

[pcmfisher]

You can do a 4 or 5 litre boil for a 20 litre batch if you want. I do it all the time.

There is a maximum bitterness you can get in a boil so the most you can get in a 20 litre batch from a 5 litre boil is about 30ibu. That's theoretically anyway.

 

[Blind Dog]

If you're after time saving whilst still experimenting with hop combinations, you could try a pre-hopped kit in the style you're aiming for, or a mix of a pre-hopped kit and unhopped extract, so you'll have a baseline bitterness and can add your own hop combinations in or after a short boil mainly for flavour/aroma.

 

[dkaos]

I have tasted some really good kit beers, maybe explore that avenue for a while until you have more time. Alternatively, pick a time to brew and do it all at once. I did a weekend of 4 batches and it was busy as but I am sorted out for a long time now.

 

[Rod]

It seems other oils in hops contribute to the level and type of bitterness as well. Surprisingly even dry hops seem like they could add to the IBU level of a beer which I was surprised about(link here).

I use brewmate to make my recipes

if I add hops at flame out or dry hops later Brewmate does not change the bitterness in the recipe