No Chill In The Kettle

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Barge

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G'day ahb'ers

I've used the NC method a few times with good result. Firstly, to clarify, my approach was to rack to a cube to cool overnight/2 days and then rack to fermenter to aerate. It occured to me before making the last brew (Light lager/24IBU) that I should just leave it in the kettle to cool then rack/aerate into the fermenter. I'm aware (I've been reading the copious amount of info re no chill for the last 2 hours, and my eyes are popping out of my head) that many rack straight to the fermenter, but I assume you all aerate with a pump/airstone, etc. I figured that letting it cool and transferring it once killed two birds with one stone.

Now to my question,

I believe the issue of increased bitterness was adressed from the POV of steeping hops, and the conclusion was a minimal effect. I realise now that I allowed the wort to stay in contact with the entire amount of hops as it cooled. The hydro samples didn't taste offensive but the beer is just lagering at the moment and it will be a while before it's ready. So I thought in the meantime I'd ask what you blokes think has happened? Has anyone trialled the NC in the K method?

Apologies if this has been discussed, as I said, there is too much to read on this.

P.S. - Please, no comments about sanitation, I'm not interested!
 
I've never done it, but I know quite a few US brewers who were no-chilling were doing this and it seemed to work for them. I'm not sure if any of them had done it with a light lager though. I've no chilled into a fermenter and then just shaken it well to aerate when it was time to pitch the yeast. (No need to go to the gym after that. :p )

BTW, have you thought it might be a problem with sanitation. :eek: :lol: :D
 
Barge,
this is what I do. let the boil rip for a while and just leave it to chill in the Kettle. I'm not against having more bitterness in the beer, I've only had one beer that I believe i had over-hopped (on the bitterness side) but it only worked to make the keg last an extra day at most. The only time where i have chilled in a cube was with my lager attempt, just to try to keep in "in Style" as far as the IBU's go anyway, but have no idea how that will compare.

to answer your question, what was your question again? Is there more bitterness, perhaps, is it a problem, up to personal taste preferances i guess. For me, not an issue, and being that it's only at 24 IBU (target) what's a few more...I love a beer with a BU:GU of 1:1 or more and sometimes it turns out unbalanced, but hey, it's mine, I like it, and it's all about enjoying the product of the fun. Prolly didn't answer your question though...

maple
 
Barge, you maybe sick of reading but if you want some more info on chilling in the kettle do a search for Oldfart on the Brew Board. He does a lot of experimentation and even went to far to boil in a conical fermenter, let it chill then dump trub and hops out the bottom before fermentation.

If your already no chilling I see no problem with this... as long as you only leave it over night because of sanitation issues ;)
 
I've done a few big partials (3+ kilos of grain) with the end boil volume of roughly 14-15 litres, and no-chilled them in the kettle with absolutely no problems in flavour, no infection etc. In fact the partial APA we devoured on grand final day was kettle chilled; sealed up with glad wrap and tape and simply left out overnight to cool. It turned out to be a bloody tasty drop, I think we burned through the keg in record time.

;)

NC in the K has worked just fine for me for end boil volumes of up to 15L. No problems with oxygenation of the wort, yeast always takes quickly and ferments strongly (even the notoriously slow wit yeast) BUT bear in mind that I do add about 5 litres of well oxygenated tap water in order to make up final volume, and this would probably effect my results.
 
In one of my frequent 'brewday malfunctions' I had to do this - copped a hop flower up my pick up tube - it wouldnt budge - wrapping my lips around hot pipework wasnt going to happen either.

Tried siphoning from the kettle but that didnt work with the tube I had so - Put the top on the kettle - cleaned up - drowned sorrows - siphoned when it was cold in the morning.

Absolutely no problems whatsoever - as I had used koppafloc the break was one gelatinous lump at the bottom - this was stout so I didnt really care.

Airated, pitched - no worries.

Wouldnt be my first choice method as I normally Chill with a CFWC.

RM
 
Thanks for the replies,

Maple and Inge, have either of you done brews "before and after" this method where you were expecting it to turn out just like last time but when you NCed in the Kettle you thought....wow, more bitter than last time?

I wouldn't be suprised if it's only a subtle diff but would expect more flavour, if not bitterness.

Jye, cheers for the suggested reading...maybe later this arvo :wacko:

Roger, same as for Maple and Inge, was that a standard brew of yours, if so would love to know if you think it's been affected.

Aside from the impact it's had on my lager, I guess I want to know what people think of this method (those who have tried it) in terms of recipe formulation as well. I was quite happy not having to move >80C wort and like the idea of doing it again, with predictable results
 
Would using a hop sock and pulling the hops out of the wort at the end of the boil save you from overbittering?
 
Definitely would...so obvious :huh:

Funny, there was a little thought lurking at the back of my mind when I was browsing Craftbrewer that wouldn't quite crystallise.

Cheers :beer:
 
I've made several attempts at making a brew i've done before, but i've always managed to twist it up some how...hmm more hops, oh, and let's try these hops. and dry hop with those other ones...yeah, that'll be close. Some experiments better than others, but never managed to repeat a recipe exactly...my own doing though. I'm sure i'll be patient enough to try it some day, but for now, it's all about tweaking...

maple
 
Definitely would...so obvious :huh:

Funny, there was a little thought lurking at the back of my mind when I was browsing Craftbrewer that wouldn't quite crystallise.

Cheers :beer:


Then if you were that way inclined you could test the difference, say by leaving it in for 10 mins, 30 mins or an hour. I leave mine in the kettle until I remember to take it out :ph34r: and havnt noticed extra bittering. I usually take it out when the kettle is cool enough to lift onto the BBQ to run off into the fermenter.
Cheers
Steve
 
Roger, same as for Maple and Inge, was that a standard brew of yours, if so would love to know if you think it's been affected.

The first Stout I had made (AG) - so not really a standard recipe.

Certainly agree with PoMo - use a hop sock and remove. Unfortunately I didnt have that luxury - stuffed up and decided that I would add the flowers directly to the kettle - what a meathead - wont do that again. Nett result was the hops stayed in the kettle whilst it cooled.

As for the outcome - the hops in question were POR - the beer was bitter - not overly so. Very drinkable.

Certainly no complaints from the proliteriate.

RM
 
It seems that any effect will be negligible so it's sounding good for me then. Cheers again, all :beer:

Maple, we're on the same page...I've got a "standard" Bo-Pils that has never been the same twice (intentionally).

Now I just need to remember to order the hop sock for the next brew...
 
Thanks for the replies,

Maple and Inge, have either of you done brews "before and after" this method where you were expecting it to turn out just like last time but when you NCed in the Kettle you thought....wow, more bitter than last time?

Sorry mate, I can't really help you there, as I have only ever no-chilled in the kettle. :( If it is any consolation, I have done two all extract versions of the same APA and I greatly preferred the NC'd in K partial over either of those. (I think this may have more to do with the grains, and very little to do with the chilling method though) :p

My two cents... I probably should have made clearer before that I always use a hop sock, so the wort isn't in direct contact with the whole hops while no-chilling. However, I would assume that the oils and acids would be floating around in your wort whether you no-chilled in the kettle or the traditional cube, therefore, there shouldn't be any difference in the two methods if you use a hop sock.
 
Definitely would...so obvious :huh:

Funny, there was a little thought lurking at the back of my mind when I was browsing Craftbrewer that wouldn't quite crystallise.

Cheers :beer:

Heh. I actually felt a bit silly making the suggestion, because it seemed too obvious. But then again, I've always had the sock in the kettle, so I guess it was obvious to me, but not to a non-socker... anyway, glad I could supply the seed crystal.

I no-chill in cubes, but pull the sock out at flameout, wait a few mins and whirlpool the hell out of the wort. Once it settles, if I've been using pellets, I still find hop residue at the bottom of the kettle. Not enough to make any difference. But if you want a flameout addition, there is no reason you couldn't chuck a handful of pellets into the whirlpool as well, so you can get the best of both worlds.
 
do the hop debris still contain the oils to bitter the beer or are the oils flowing through the wort?
;)
 
Cheers...I've never been big on late additions but I'm about to jump on the JSGA band wagon with an amarillo ale so I'll have to give it a go
 
whoops...missed the last 2 posts. good questions, both.

if isomerisation at less than boiling occurs to any extent than I reckon my lager will be quite noticably bitter. I already had a Bo-Pils fermenting when I brewed this so I was aiming for a standard international lager (ie, mid20's IBUs). If it's any bitter than that i think it will be fairly obvious. Can report back with the results if anyone is interested.
 
I'd be interested to hear how you find it... might mean that I adjust my bittering hops by a bit (at least this time i'd have a reason, other than the standard, I wonder if...)

maple
 
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