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No Chill Hop Additions

Discussion in 'All Grain Brewing' started by Crusty, 5/5/12.

 

  1. Crusty

    The Electric Brewery

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    Posted 5/5/12
    Being a first time no chiller, how are you guys adjusting your hop additions for no chill?
    I found a chart on the net that suggested that 60min additions be added at 40min
    30min add at 10min
    20min add to cube
    15 & 10min FWH
    5min & 0min dry hop
    Baloney or about right?
     
  2. ekul

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    Posted 5/5/12
    There's heaps of discussion on this, I bring everything forward 15mins. Or usually i just get recipes from nochillers so then i don't have to adjust.



    With the bittering you don't really need to move it, the difference between 60 and 75min of boiling is tiny. I bring it forward to 45 sometimes if i want the bittering addition to add a littel flavour as well. The 45 addition gives the same bitterness as a 60min addition for me.



     
  3. mxd

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    Posted 5/5/12
    for my I don't relly adjust, I make the beer for my system then adjust.

    If I get a recipe, I will not play with the 20+ minute hop additions.

    but may thow the 10, 5 and 0 into a flame out then a big handful of dry.

    it also depends on what I'm making the above is more relevant for APA/IPA, but for Boh Pil, Stout more malt driven, I generally try not to hop post 20 min and will do a first wort addition.
     
  4. Crusty

    The Electric Brewery

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    Posted 5/5/12
    Thanks guys.
     
  5. iralosavic

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    Posted 5/5/12
    I personally don't think the BM no chill adjuster is accurate at all. I'd say adding 10 minutes to rach addition in your software should be close enough. For additions under 10 minutes, play around with cube hopping.

    I'm loving 40 minute bittering at the moment. I dial in 50 minutes for calculating bitterness and it seems close enough to me.
     
  6. manticle

    Standing up for the Aussie Bottler

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    Posted 5/5/12
    I make my own recipes for my system which is No chill and make no adjustments. When I start using my newly bought plate chiller I may start playing (in reverse).

    Best way is to brew beer as is then adjust in future as your palate suggests.
     
  7. Thirsty Boy

    ICB - tight shorts and poor attitude. Fuck yeah!

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    Posted 14/5/12
    you DONT move the actual hop additions..... you just think of them as though they were in there longer.

    So for instance if You add some 60 min hops.... calculate the bitterness they add as if you'd added them at 80mins. If you add hops at 0 mins, calculate their bitterness addition as if they had been added at 20min.

    Just put the additions in at the same time anyone else would for a bittering, flavouring, aroma addittion - all you need to know is that you're likely to get more bitterness out of the hops than you would if you rapidly chilled your wort. To compensate you calculate all your hop additions as though they had been in there for 20mins longer, then reduce your pure bittering charge until the calculated IBUs match the number of IBUs you actually want.

    20mins is just one figure to use btw, a place to start - I suggest you'll need to brew a bit to work out if and how much you personally need to compensate. I would start with either no adjustment at all, or perhaps use 10mins and work your way up if you need to.

    If by chance you choose to throw some hops directly into your no-chill cube.... calculate their bitterness addition as if they'd been in the boil for 20-30mins. That I am much more sure of.
     
  8. stux

    Hacienda Brewhaus

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    Posted 14/5/12
    I've settled on 10 mins. So in brewing software I would enter my 60, 20 and 5 minute additions as 70, 30 and 15

    But the hops still go in as 60,20 and 5

    I was finding 20 minutes reduced my overall bitterness far too much and QldKev had a compelling argument on his website. Basically chillers have a 10 minute lag and no chillers have a 20 minute lag, but the net difference is only 10 minutes
     
  9. lukasfab

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    Posted 14/5/12

    just to make it clear for me,
    you put your beer in to the software as normal, your 60min hop shows ibu of say 25, you edit your time to 70min and the ibu goes up to

    27 lets say, you then adjust the hop amount to read 25?
     
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  10. JDW81

    I make wort, the yeast make it beer.

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    Posted 14/5/12
    That's how I work it. Always comes up well across all styles I've brewed.
     
  11. ekul

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    Posted 14/5/12

    if you use brewmate (free) it has a checkbox that automatically gives 15 min to every addition. So you just enter the recipe normally and then click the boc and it will tell you how bitter each addition will be.

    After you've been brewing a while you'll know how bitter your recipes will come out and automatically adjust. This is why its a good idea to keep notes on recipes and what you did on brewday.
     
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  12. stux

    Hacienda Brewhaus

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    Posted 14/5/12
    Pretty much.

    I adjust the bittering addition to bring the total IBUs back down to where I want it.

    Late hop additons I tend to do on a g/L basis rather than an IBU basis, but by entering all the additions offset by 10 minutes I *think* the IBUs are relatively accurate. Then I adjust the bittering addition to get the total IBU target I want.

    Doing it this way I end up with the aroma/flavour profile I want, and the overall bitterness seems to correlate with what I expect the IBUs to imply.
     
  13. Verbyla

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    Posted 14/5/12
    Best thing about this forum is that it continually proves you don't know everything no matter how much reading and preparation you do.

    I did my first AG Black Beer Saturday and completely forgot to factor "No Chill" into my hops schedule :(

    Should only contribute another 4 IBU so not the end of the world.

    Is it better to throw in the 0-5 minute hop additions in with the cooling wort or dry hop them after pitching the yeasties???
     
  14. Barley Belly

    Head Brewer - Barley Belly Brewery

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    Posted 14/5/12
    Bittering @ 40mins
    Flavour @ 5mins
    Aroma @ 15mins after flameout/whirlpool and 5mins before drain to cube

    Does the job here :icon_cheers:
     
  15. Thirsty Boy

    ICB - tight shorts and poor attitude. Fuck yeah!

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    Posted 14/5/12
    Perfect - just goes to show that there is no "One True Answer" - only the answer that is true in your brewery.

    No chill is simply "newer" than other ways of handling wort - so far no-one has done the required work to come up with a well supported bitterness calculation for it, so we're all guessing a bit. Mind you, when you look at the difference between the three or four major calculation schemes used when the wort is rapidly chilled, and the obvious inadequacies that they have, the guesses you see around the place for no-chill hopping dont seem so wild at all.
     
  16. mooskey56

    Dungeon O' Sponge Brewery

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    Posted 14/5/12
    And as others have said, you will get different solutions from different breweries and brewers. It's all down to how each individual changes the calculations for their tastes and their procedures.

    I normally FWH my bittering addition, which doesnt affect the no chill bittering too much as there's not much difference in bitterness levels above 60min (although I do throw another 20min on my calculations just to make sure), then add 20mins on to the other additions, and anything <20min I throw into the cube.

    Once again, different breweries/brewers will change their schedule according to how they brew.

    Experiment and see what works for you.


    Sponge
     
  17. Mud Gecko

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    Posted 15/5/12
    Does somebody have an adjusted receipe for Dr Smurtos GA for no-chill? If I put the standard receipe into BrewMate it comes up with 51 IBU :eek:
     
  18. BobtheBrewer

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    Posted 15/5/12


    Did you tick the "no chill" box on the left hand side?
     
  19. Camo1234

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    Posted 15/5/12

    Smurto has said that he has around a 20min lag between flameout and chill so he suggests just leaving the recipe as is.. That's what I have done and have been happy with the results and will just play around with the timings / amounts etc till I get it right for my brewery / taste buds :icon_cheers:

    Camo
     
  20. drsmurto

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    Posted 15/5/12
    My recipes do not need adjusting.

    I always wait 10-20 minutes after flameout during which time the wort is cooling down. So the recipe already takes this into account. I'm yet to be convinced that this is different to what no chillers do assuming you whirlpool after flameout and allow the break to settle. I then run it through a plate chiller which can take 5-10 mins depending on the chilling water temperature.

    I read a paper recently which talked about the rate of alpha acid isomerisation as a function of temperature. From memory it was halved with every drop of 10C but i don't think it took into account the time it takes for alpha acids to dissolve (they are poorly soluble) as I suspect they added pure AAs already in solution. I can't put my fingers on it at the moment but that would be useful if we also had a rate of cooling of wort after flameout. Would help demystify this somewhat.

    But..... i think the best way to find out for yourself is to brew the same recipe twice. First with no adjustments to the recipe and the second with whatever no cgill adjustment you deem appropriate.

    My golden ale recipe is designed using tinseth in beersmith as are all my recipes.
     

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