Napisan - Sodium Percarbonate

[reviled]

Hey guys,

Have been reading how most of you use homebrand napisan or sodium percarbonate for sanitising and thought it sounds like a fairly cheap option, especially compared to buying sodium metabisulphate...

I was wondering, cos I had a look at the no name brand napisan and it was only about 25% sodium percarbonate and had other things in it also, is this still ok to use?

Also, how does one sanitise with this stuff? Just make up a solution of how much napisan to how much water? And then once its touched the surfaces and dried up a bit do you need to rinse it off or not?

Ive been told by the guy at my home brew shop not to rinse off sodium met, and I havnt but more recently have discovered a slightly off taste to my beer which isnt infection... Has he put me down the wrong path?

Please help! P

 

[therook]

Hey guys,

Have been reading how most of you use homebrand napisan or sodium percarbonate for sanitising and thought it sounds like a fairly cheap option, especially compared to buying sodium metabisulphate...

I was wondering, cos I had a look at the no name brand napisan and it was only about 25% sodium percarbonate and had other things in it also, is this still ok to use?

Also, how does one sanitise with this stuff? Just make up a solution of how much napisan to how much water? And then once its touched the surfaces and dried up a bit do you need to rinse it off or not?

Ive been told by the guy at my home brew shop not to rinse off sodium met, and I havnt but more recently have discovered a slightly off taste to my beer which isnt infection... Has he put me down the wrong path?

Please help! P

Rev,

Have a look at this link, it may help you

Link

Rook

 

[T.D.]

Definitely need to rinse it. But I don't know of any brewers who use it as a sanitiser... A lot of people use it to keep their fermenters and cubes CLEAN but still use a sanitiser (Iodophor for example) afterwards. Napisan probably would act as a sanitiser as well but I find it most useful for cleaning scum off fermenters and cubes. Then I rinse a few times and then give it a run with iodophor to get it fully sanitised.

 

[reviled]

Maybe I read wrong about using it as a sanitiser, more for cleaning... Iodophor is a name ive heard for the first time today, is this a non rinse product?

 

[geoffi]

Maybe I read wrong about using it as a sanitiser, more for cleaning... Iodophor is a name ive heard for the first time today, is this a non rinse product?

Yes. No-rinse when used at the correct dilution. Even used a little stronger you'll get away with it, as you need so little.

I strongly recommend the Basic Brewing Radio podcasts covering sanitising with Iodophor and Starsan. The latter also talks about sanistising with bleach, which is well worth a listen.

Podcasts

 

[sponge]

I let my fermenters soak over a few couple if nights in no-name napisan (and if i have any dirty stubbies/longnecks that need cleaning or getting the labels off, leave them in there as well). Works a treat. Then i just use a no rinse sanitiser after the soaking...


Sponge

 

[reviled]

I keep hearing about this no rinse sanitiser, ive decided that sodium met is not a no rinse product due to the slight "tangy" taste left in my beers, allthough that may be from Chlorine in the tap water im using???

We dont seem to have starsan in NZ unfortunately, and was wondering what is this iodophor stuff? It sounds like liquid gold!!! Specially seeing as you dont need to rinse... What form can you buy it in? Where would be a good place to look for it? And what are the normal ratios for Iodophor to water in order to get a sucessfull no rinse?

Cheers

 

[therook]

Try bleach, it's all in the link i posted

Rook

 

[geoffi]

I keep hearing about this no rinse sanitiser, ive decided that sodium met is not a no rinse product due to the slight "tangy" taste left in my beers, allthough that may be from Chlorine in the tap water im using???

We dont seem to have starsan in NZ unfortunately, and was wondering what is this iodophor stuff? It sounds like liquid gold!!! Specially seeing as you dont need to rinse... What form can you buy it in? Where would be a good place to look for it? And what are the normal ratios for Iodophor to water in order to get a sucessfull no rinse?

Cheers

Dilutions etc are all in the link I posted to the podcasts. I think it's 'officially' 1 ml/1 litre, but I usually dilute to the point where I can just see a little colour in the solution, and just detect the smell. Slight overkill, but I have litres of the stuff (see below) and am not overly worried about economising on this. BTW, you don't need to soak anything in this solution. Eg., add say a litre to a fermenter, swish a few times, then turn upside down to drip for a few minutes. That's it.

You can buy iodophor at any home brew shop worth the name. If you can't get it any other way, try a rural supply shop. You can get iodine-based sanitisers (made for the dairy and poultry industries -- I use one called Sanichick) that are essentially the same as iodophor, in bulk at a fraction of the usual price.

 

[roger mellie]

I keep hearing about this no rinse sanitiser, ive decided that sodium met is not a no rinse product due to the slight "tangy" taste left in my beers, allthough that may be from Chlorine in the tap water im using???

We dont seem to have starsan in NZ unfortunately, and was wondering what is this iodophor stuff? It sounds like liquid gold!!! Specially seeing as you dont need to rinse... What form can you buy it in? Where would be a good place to look for it? And what are the normal ratios for Iodophor to water in order to get a sucessfull no rinse?

Cheers

Starsan can be posted - check one of our site sponsors.

If you live in NZ and you aren't too far away from the countryside - go to your nearest dairy farm - ask the Cow Cocky for a small amount of the Iodine/Phosphoric acid pipe sterilser. It will usually be made by Alfa Laval. All Dairy farms use it.

500ml will last you for ages.

Pay the Cocky with Beer.

RM

 

[Hutch]

I keep hearing about this no rinse sanitiser, ive decided that sodium met is not a no rinse product due to the slight "tangy" taste left in my beers, allthough that may be from Chlorine in the tap water im using???

We dont seem to have starsan in NZ unfortunately, and was wondering what is this iodophor stuff? It sounds like liquid gold!!! Specially seeing as you dont need to rinse... What form can you buy it in? Where would be a good place to look for it? And what are the normal ratios for Iodophor to water in order to get a sucessfull no rinse?

Cheers

Liquid gold, or perhaps liquid brown!
Starsan is available from site sponsors Craftbrewer and Grain and Grape (G&G sell it as a product called "Defender"), though not sure if they ship to NZ? It is basically stong phosphoric acid mixed with some other chemicals to act as a surfactant. It is very effective, is no-rinse, and does not leave any taint in your beer, and a little goes a long way (as with iodophor).

Sodium met is the work of the devil, and any HBS still promoting it's use as a steriliser is living in the dark ages, and needs a kick in the pants. The fumes are noxious, and potentially very dangerous for asthmatics.

The sodium percarbonate in Napysan can be bought in it's pure form from either Grain and Grape ("Oxyper") or from some supermarkets in the homebrewing section, labelled "Coopers Sanitiser":

 

[geoffi]

Iodophor will also help prevent cretinism... :wacko:

 

[Bribie G]

Try bleach, it's all in the link i posted

Rook

+1. Haven't brewed since the Sodium Met days and, now I'm back again have been using Woolies cheap bleach (not the lemon scented! Maybe they should bring out a beer scented ). On to my 11th brew and not a dud brew or dud bottle yet. But rinse well! I found in the old days that the only trouble I ever had with infections was if I left a fermenter for a couple of days after bottling, or left bottles overnight before cleaning.

I now have 2 golden rules: beer sits tantalisingly in jug and NO DRINKIES until the bottle from which it came is washed immediately - usually four vigorous rinses with hot water does the trick: and after any bottling session the very next job is to thoroughly wash and completely rinse fermenter using just a dedicated cloth and ordinary dishwashing liquid then put it on the chlorine until the next brew.

Lets face it if you have just bottled a nice sound brew and thoroughly cleaned out the fermenter there shouldn't be any nasties in there that actually need killing, the sterilizer is just an insurance policy. Ditto bottles (I use 2l PET).

 

[tdh]

Oxyper (sodium percarbonate) and Proxitane (hydrogen peroxide/sodium carbonate) are my cleaners and sanitisers of choice.

Quick and efficient.

tdh

 

[Andyd]

If you guys are coming to ANHC, we've got Jon Herskovits (from Five Star Chemicals, Makers of StarSan) coming along to present on all things cleaning and sanitising - should be an interesting talk, and a great opportunity to get some answers straight from the source!

Cheers!

Andy

 

[reviled]

If you guys are coming to ANHC, we've got Jon Herskovits (from Five Star Chemicals, Makers of StarSan) coming along to present on all things cleaning and sanitising - should be an interesting talk, and a great opportunity to get some answers straight from the source!

Cheers!

Andy

Tell him to stop being stink and send his product over to NZ!!!

 

[T.D.]

Iodophor only needs a dilution rate of 1ml/L whereas Starsan needs 1.5-2ml/L. Iodophor is also cheaper. And compared to acid-based sanitisers its safer to have around the house where there are little tackers running about.

I have used Peracetic acid before and it works beautifully, but it also is dangerous stuff in its undiluted form!

So can I clarify, are some of you guys saying that Napisan is actually non-rinse?

 

[therook]

Iodophor only needs a dilution rate of 1ml/L whereas Starsan needs 1.5-2ml/L. Iodophor is also cheaper. And compared to acid-based sanitisers its safer to have around the house where there are little tackers running about.

I have used Peracetic acid before and it works beautifully, but it also is dangerous stuff in its undiluted form!

So can I clarify, are some of you guys saying that Napisan is actually non-rinse?

Napi-San

Napi-San is not a true sanitiser, but does have some sanitising qualities. It is basically made up of Sodium Carbonate (washing soda) and Sodium Percarbonate. Sodium Percarbonate is the active ingredient, while Sodium Carbonate is the emulsifier/detergent agent. Sodium Percarbonate breaks down into Sodium Carbonate and Hydrogen Peroxide. It is this Hydrogen Peroxide that is the sanitising agent in Nappi-San.Nappi-San requires very hot water (above 65*c ) to work effectively. The hot water allows the Peroxide to form, and do its sanitizing

Nappi-San will not stain or attack plastics, metals or glass, however you will need to rinse it off after use, although it is non-toxic and you wont die if you dont rinse.

Napi-San makes for one of the best soak cleaners available. It will readily remove organic matter (trub, yeast etc) from brewing gear, and as it does not attack materials (like bleach sometimes can), items can be left to soak for long periods of time without problems.

 

[T.D.]

Good info Rook, thanks mate!

 

[RobW]

Napi-San

Napi-San is not a true sanitiser, but does have some sanitising qualities. It is basically made up of Sodium Carbonate (washing soda) and Sodium Percarbonate. Sodium Percarbonate is the active ingredient, while Sodium Carbonate is the emulsifier/detergent agent. Sodium Percarbonate breaks down into Sodium Carbonate and Hydrogen Peroxide. It is this Hydrogen Peroxide that is the sanitising agent in Nappi-San.Nappi-San requires very hot water (above 65*c ) to work effectively. The hot water allows the Peroxide to form, and do its sanitizing

Nappi-San will not stain or attack plastics, metals or glass, however you will need to rinse it off after use, although it is non-toxic and you wont die if you dont rinse.

Napi-San makes for one of the best soak cleaners available. It will readily remove organic matter (trub, yeast etc) from brewing gear, and as it does not attack materials (like bleach sometimes can), items can be left to soak for long periods of time without problems.

+1 but IMO definitely not an adequate sanitiser. I used it as such twice and both times had infected brews.
When I used it only as a cleaner followed with a no rinse dairy sanitiser I had no more infections.