My first yeast starter

[Fraser's BRB]

So on a cruddy rainy day and with fermentation fridges full, I decided it was a perfect opportunity to start up my own little yeast ranch!

Chose 1056 as the first victim so that I can pitch it straight into a pale or golden that I brew all the time thus eliminating any uncertainty on that side of things.

My flask is overly large for this size starter, however my thinking was that this size will suit for later on if I want to step up to a bigger starter for a higher ABV brew.

I've read a number of posts on here about starters (incuding Wolfy's excellent guide) and I've also read Palmer's thoughts on it in How to Brew. I've used MrMalty and compared the results to the tables in Palmer's book as well as that shown by the Wyeast pitching calculator, and the final yeast count varies wildly between all sources as well as the count required for any given OG. Do people just take an average or is there a definitive source?

Also, some information I've read says to run the starter at around 22deg whereas Palmer recommends running it at the temp you intend to ferment your beer at (in this instance 18deg). Any ideas on that one?

Finally, is direct light an issue for the starter? I've covered it just in case, wasn't sure on that one though.

 

[Curly79]

You have a yeast forge for your first ever starter!?

 

[Fraser's BRB]

You have a yeast forge for your first ever starter!?

I don't mess about

I identified some time ago that I have this personality fault whereby I will sometimes buy stuff that will do the job, but is not necessarily the best bit of gear available. It will eat away at me for a while, then I'll just buy the shinier thing and I'm out of pocket for both items. The only upside is that now I have identified this issue, I tend to go straight to the "best" piece of shiny gear and cut out the expense of the slightly less shiny but capable piece of interim gear. The only time I can seem to bypass these urges is if the shiny piece of gear is outrageously expensive, hence why my brewrig is so ghetto.

 

[Curly79]

Fair call mate . I'm about to pitch a starter into an oatmeal stout right now. I've only done a few starters in my time but I'm really enjoying it. I've been getting old frozen vials of White Labs and bringing them back to life in my flask sitting by the wood heater. It's so exciting when 48 hrs in you think there's no hope, then all of a sudden they fire up. I think it's is anyway? Simple things amuse simple minds they say[emoji12]

 

[Fraser's BRB]

Fair call mate . I'm about to pitch a starter into an oatmeal stout right now. I've only done a few starters in my time but I'm really enjoying it. I've been getting old frozen vials of White Labs and bringing them back to life in my flask sitting by the wood heater. It's so exciting when 48 hrs in you think there's no hope, then all of a sudden they fire up. I think it's is anyway? Simple things amuse simple minds they say[emoji12]

Mine's been spinning for a couple of hours now and there's already activity with co2 forming at the edges and in the whirlpool. Of course the Wyeast packaging date was 29 May, so I'd expect it to be quick.

 

[shacked]

I've read a number of posts on here about starters (incuding Wolfy's excellent guide) and I've also read Palmer's thoughts on it in How to Brew. I've used MrMalty and compared the results to the tables in Palmer's book as well as that shown by the Wyeast pitching calculator, and the final yeast count varies wildly between all sources as well as the count required for any given OG. Do people just take an average or is there a definitive source?

Also, some information I've read says to run the starter at around 22deg whereas Palmer recommends running it at the temp you intend to ferment your beer at (in this instance 18deg). Any ideas on that one?

Finally, is direct light an issue for the starter? I've covered it just in case, wasn't sure on that one though.

Hi Mate,

1) I use Mr. Malty and take the top of the range. So for pitching from slurry, I use thin slurry with the highest non-yeast percentage. In listening to Jamil's podcast 'Brewing with Style', he says that at Heretic they pitch double the recommended yeast quantity. I think within reason, it's probably best to over pitch a little than be under.

2) I do mine at room temp and when done, crash in the fridge overnight, decant the spent wort (leaving around 100 - 200 ml) and let what's left come to pitching temp.

3) I'd say avoiding UV light would be a good precaution

Yeast is great! We just make sugar, yeast is what turns it into delicious beer.

 

[Danscraftbeer]

I love the volcano Krausen you get on the stir plate. Activated yeast pitch is confidence imo.
Starters are basically compulsory to me but that may be considered a disorder these days.
I made covers for my flasks with that silver insulating sheeting. Thow yeasties and the brew should be in the dark.

 

[Reman]

I stir plate at room temp, off flavours are not a concern when building yeast starters.

I go 1.5L for ales and 3L for lagers for 20Lish, probably over pitching, but definitely not under.

I always keep a little back in a specimen jar to build up for the next brew.

 

[Judanero]

I also use mr malty to get me in the ballpark and then slightly pitch over what it says.

Eg. 2L recommended starter size I'll make up 3L, chill and decant off the supernatant (leaving about 5mL above yeast) give it a swirl and fill a sterilised 60ml specimen/sample jar to go into the fridge for building up next time, pitch the rest of the yeast from the flask into wort once at equal temp.

I build my starters at ambient (inside an esky, stir plate and all), I guess this may help insulate the flask a bit so the starter temp may be a little bit warmer then ambient when you factor in the heat generated from fermentation.

Starter temp the same as ferment temp would be ideal if you are pitching the whole starter contents at "high krausen" but whether it is necessary if you're planning to decant? I doubt it.
It's been a while since I've read through the brewing yeast and fermentation book (I can't remember anything specifically about starting at ferment temp) but think it's preferable to have it slightly warmer than ferment temp.

3L sounds like an under pitch for a lager Reman (unless it's low strength), mine are always at least 6L for the first gen and even then I think I'm slightly under pitching, I definitely am if I pitch cold.

 

[Reman]

I use the Brewers friend pitch rate calc and using the Troester stir plate method a 60ml->1L->3L stepped starter is sufficient for ~25L. Fermented out a 1.069 Bock fine.

Having said that, I agree that over pitching is usually not an issue especially with a lager where you don't want any esters anyway.

6L is a huuuuge starter though!

 

[Judanero]

I use the Brewers friend pitch rate calc and using the Troester stir plate method a 60ml->1L->3L stepped starter is sufficient for ~25L. Fermented out a 1.069 Bock fine.

Having said that, I agree that over pitching is usually not an issue especially with a lager where you don't want any esters anyway.

6L is a huuuuge starter though!

That's going from a smack pack/vial, when using washed slurry it's still ~ 500 mL of yeast (assuming thin slurry, high non yeast an depending on OG) so to get to that you need a large starter!

I checked out brewers friend, couldn't find the Troester- only White and Braukaiser methods, both indicate you would definitely be under pitching using the steps you outlined (assuming 1.020/5 P for starter wort).

 

[Randai]

Kai Troester is braukaiser. A bloke that did a whole bunch of research on brewing science. Shared his data on
http://braukaiser.com/wiki/index.php/Braukaiser.com

Another yeast calculator writer said he couldn't find any data to back up the mr malty calculator, but the braukaiser wiki has all his findings.

Also going to be doing my first stirred starter this weekend using a yeast forge, previous ones were left in a container of work and shaken around a few times.

 

[Reman]

That's going from a smack pack/vial, when using washed slurry it's still ~ 500 mL of yeast (assuming thin slurry, high non yeast an depending on OG) so to get to that you need a large starter!

I checked out brewers friend, couldn't find the Troester- only White and Braukaiser methods, both indicate you would definitely be under pitching using the steps you outlined (assuming 1.020/5 P for starter wort).

Yeah, I go 1.045 for my starter wort which may help things along a little

I think I went even higher for the second step for the Bock so there was some higher gravity conditioning (which may be bollocks)

Randai, good luck with the starter, I began with just shaking and I ended up with about double the slurry once I started stir plating. Some of the best money I spent on brewing bling.

 

[Randai]

Thanks mate, look forward to it. Glad to hear others have such great success with it.

 

[Fraser's BRB]

So I ended up pitching this starter (WY1056) into the monster crsytal brew posted in What are you Brewing.

I'd allowed it to ferment out and stored in the fridge to drop the yeast out. Pulled out of the fridge when I started mashing in to warm up, decanted off most of the spent wort, swirled it to get the yeast in suspension, then pitched into 18deg wort about 2 hours later.

12 hours later it hasn't started fermenting. Now, I'm not overly concerned as usually I don't see anything until 24 to 36 hours, I've just seen all these posts saying starters tend to have really short lag times?

What's your average lag time for a starter that's settled?

 

[Fraser's BRB]

Just got home from work, mad krausen and bubbling away happily.

This is far more advanced than my dry yeast would have been at this time, so success!

 

[Reman]

Yep, it can take some time for the yeast to rouse themselves from the cold.

If you pitch straight from the stir plate aka a vitality starter, you might find it kicks off quicker

 

[danestead]

Just got home from work, mad krausen and bubbling away happily.

This is far more advanced than my dry yeast would have been at this time, so success!

Awesome!

Just remember that a really short lag time isn't a good thing. It's a balance. A lot of important stuff takes place during the so called lag phase. If I remember correctly, yeast will take up the available oxygen within minutes. That's just 1 of the things that goes on.

 

[Fraser's BRB]

Shit's getting real tonight, 2L starter to split, 1 for the fridge the other for a second starter to do 2 x 23L brews on Sunday.

WY1968, doing an ESB and maybe a stout, haven't really settled on second brew

 

[rude]

Just did a 1098 wyeast september 2015 took a week to blow up at 21c
yeast calc recons 10 billion cells

Its for a 1044 Best Bitter yeast calc recons 189 billion cells

Then 500ml 1037 on the stir plate (home made) 30 odd hours (day & a half) to 47 billion cells
cc ed & decanted

Repitched into 1037 2.5 litres on the stir plate for 230 billion cells

So hopefully 5 times the growth

So thats 40 billion over might decant after cc ing & hold back a bit of slurry to rebuild again for another Pommy style beer
or even an American or English Brown

Mmmm bit hit & miss but thats where Im at