My efficiency sucks, can you help?

[r055c0]

Hi All,
I’m having a somewhat frustrating time with my efficiency and I’m wondering if anyone can give me some pointers. When I started brewing AG on my system I was hitting around 72%, I’ve done 20 brews now and for the last 5 or 6 brews my efficiency has plummeted to an average of about 62%. I made a few adjustments to a brew on the weekend, including building a new copper manifold for my mash tun and adding Calcium Chloride at approx. 1/1000 (a reccomendation I got from here for melbourne water), but was only able to get it up to 64%. I’ve always been pretty close with my volume estimates, usually within 0.5L


To be honest I’m still making beer that I really enjoy, and I’m compensating for my low efficiency when I design my recipes (in Beersmith) so the only real detriment is the cost of an additional ½ kilo or so of grain and a few extra grams of hops so that extra $2 or so is really not killing me, but knowing that I should be getting better efficiency is nagging at me, I want to do this right. I'm re reading John Palmer's How To Brew but if there is anything that stands out to any of you I would love to hear it.


So if you can be bothered you can read my brew day process below, it’s a bit ghetto in a few spots but if this forum has taught me anything it is that ghetto is the essence of brewing


Equipment:

• 1 x Keggle with 3 ring burner
• 1 x 44L square esky mash tun with copper manifold (pic below)
• 1 x 8L bucket for moving water around
• 1 x 25L esky for storing first runnings while sparge water goes into the mash tun

Method (using a medium body pale ale as an example):

• Grain goes into the mash tun
• Heat Mash In water in keggle to 76C (1C higher than beersmith calculates to account for loss of temp during transfer)
• Transfer Mash In water to mash tun via 8L bucket
• Mix well with mash paddle, cover with a piece of foil to keep heat in, seal esky lid
• Mash for 1 hour
• Heat Mash Out water in keggle to 96C
• Transfer Mash Out water to mash tun using 8L bucket
• Stir with mash paddle, cover & seal
• Leave for 10 minutes
• Gently run off around 4L of liquor (until clear) and return to top of mash (poured gently over foil to not disturb grain bed)
• Drain liquor from mash tun to 25L esky (tap set at about ½ open so it is a gentle drain, takes 15 to 20 minutes)
• Heat Sparge water in keggle to 76C
• Once first runnings have drained from mash tun seal 25L esky
• Add Sparge water to mash tun, stir, seal and wait 10 minutes
• Pour first runnings from 25L esky into keggle (and down my shirt, over my hands & feet etc) and turn burner on
• Drain 2nd runnings liquor from mash tun to 25L esky (tap set at about ½ open so it is a gentle drain, takes 15 to 20 minutes)
• Pour 2nd runnings from 25L esky into keggle
• Bring to boil, add hops, add whirlfloc, flameout & cube

 

[Cosh]

You mention that your efficiency has dropped from 72% to 64%; what have you changed in your process since then?

Are you taking accurate temperature measurements during the mash?

An important thing to check is the grain crush; do you mill the grain yourself, or do you get the HBS to do it for you?

 

[GalBrew]

I remember Palmer discussing dead spots in mash tuns that use manifolds. Basically he said that any sugars that fall below the level of the manifold slits will be lost and hamper efficiency. I think he even suggested putting the slits on the underside of the manifold to maximise the amount of useful sugars that can be lautered from the mash tun. Either way a false bottom may increase your efficiency purely because you have increase lauter efficiency. Just a thought.

 

[r055c0]

I don't think I've changed anything process wise, that is the real head scratcher.

I have 2 thermometers I use for measuing temps and they are close to the same, I don't measure the temp during the mash as I havent wanted to disturb it, and I usually forget to check it after the mash (although I can tell you the spent grain is the perfect temp to jam a bottle of Saki into before serving). I'll be taking a heap of measurements during my next brew so I can see exactly what is happening.

I get my grain milled at my HBS and have been using 2 stores regularly, Keg King & Core Brewing Concepts with the same results from both. Micah at CBC ran my last lot through the mill twice to give me a finer crush but I still had no change in efficiency. I always use the grain within a couple of days of it being milled.

 

[r055c0]

I used Palmer's guide when measuring up my manifold so it should be well away from the sides, will definetley add some slits to the bottom before the next brew though

 

[MastersBrewery]

after each your 10min rests, for mashout and sparge, I would be giving it a good stir, then drain and return until clear.
I hope that isn't too ambiguous

 

[donburke]

has your water profile changed ? might not have enough trace minerals

were the beers that you managed better efficiency darker ? might be a ph issue

are you checking your gravity at the same temperature ? check your hydrometer is calibrated

 

[r055c0]

Haven't tried that MB, I thought that rest was for the grain bed to settle again. I will definetley try this, thanks.

 

[Ross]

pm sent.

cheers Ross

 

[r055c0]

I don't think my water profile has changed donburke, I'm still using the same melbourne tap water so I would guess there would be a a whole lot more people with issues if it had changed. I drank all the beers from the first brews already so cant compare unfortunatley.

I've calibrated my hydrometer to 15.6C and I use Brewzor on my phone to do the calculations if the wort is at a different temp

 

[RelaxedBrewer]

Is the mash temp you listed (76C) correct? That is a very high mash temp.
I use 66C for medium body beer and 69C for fuller body.

Not 100% sure what happens when you mash that high.

 

[r055c0]

Thats the temp Beersmith reccomends to add, drops to 66ish once mixed with the grain etc.

Mash in temp is actually 73C, forgot I had beersmith on my phone to refer to

 

[RelaxedBrewer]

Ah, ok those temps make much more sense now.

I also mash in an eski, but I give it a quick stir every 15 min or so. I found this improved my efficiency.

Also how much water to grain are you using for mash and sparge?

 

[dicko]

I used Palmer's guide when measuring up my manifold so it should be well away from the sides, will definetley add some slits to the bottom before the next brew though

Just turn the manifold over so that the slits are ALL at the bottom. More will run off that way.

Grain crush is the main cause of poor efficiency or in your case the efficiency changing.
There are a lot of Braumeisters around now and maybe the HBS is milling with a gap to suit these units which generally is wider than what you would want for a manifold...just a thought!!

Cheers

Cheers

 

[manticle]

At what point are you coming in low? Knowing whereabouts in the process will help you iron it out. For example, is it conversion/mash efficiency or sparging?

And yeah - slits on the bottom. Could add in a third section to the manifold (longitudinal central piece)

 

[Truman42]

Is the picture of the manifold your new one or your your old one? You could try adding a few more sections of copper in the middle to increase the surface area you have to collect wort or switch to a false bottom as Galbrew suggested.

I have a copper manifold you can have, (and Im just around the corner from Micah in Lyndhurst)

Grain crush is the main cause of poor efficiency or in your case the efficiency changing.
There are a lot of Braumeisters around now and maybe the HBS is milling with a gap to suit these units which generally is wider than what you would want for a manifold...just a thought!!

Dicko has a point. Ive seen the gap size on Micahs mill and it may be a bit too large for a manifold. I have mine set to .9 mm. As an experiment if you buy your grain from him unmilled next time, I can crush it for you and see how much difference it makes. But I have noticed an increase from 70% up to 82% since I started milling my own grain.

 

[r055c0]

Wow, I'm feeling the love from you guys today

Relaxed Brewer, Stirring during the mash is an interesting idea, do you lose a lot of temperature that way? I'll have a shot at it. For a 25L brew with 7kg of grain I mash in with 18.5L, mash out with 10.5L and sparge with 10.5L.

Dicko, great idea with turning the manifold, will flip for the next brew.

Manticle, I'm not sure exactly where but I'll be taking every kind of reading I can at every point for my next brew to see where the issue lies. I'll add a crossbar or two next chance I get.

Truman, it's my new one (still shiny), previously I was using a coil of stainless braid. Thanks for the generous offer, I'd like to persevere with making my own one for the moment, just so I can say I did Micah has always been really accomodating so I'll ask him if he can set the gap to 0.9mm next time I buy grain from him, if not I'd love to take you up on your offer of milling at your house, will make sure there are a few bottles of beer in the car with me so we don't dehydrate while the mill is doing its work, will PM you if Micah cant help me. Looks like a mill should be next on my wish list, will have to butter the missus up before the tax return comes in.

 

[Ducatiboy stu]

I found grain crush caused probs... you actually need a reasonable amount of flour as well...upto 25-30%...

Also I recirc the sparge water thru the tun untill it is clear and use boiling water to sparge

 

[r055c0]

Ducatiboy Stu, what do you mean by recirculating? I currently draw off around 4L (more if I don't feel the liquor has cleared enough) and add it back to the top of the mash, is that what you mean?

 

[Truman42]

If you explain the situation to Micah he should change the gap for you. But if he doesnt want to or is unable to for some reason, the offers there.