Mr B's All Grain Adventure

[Mr B]

Hey All

Been reading this site for many months, and planning to make some beer. May as well make this the spot to tell my story and ask questions along the way. By the way, the site is excellent and peoples seem great, informative and entertaining.

I quite like beer, and the nature of making it, which involves chemistry, stainless steel stuff, valves, pumps, water etc is right up my alley. I have never done it before, as homebrew my mates have made always tasted like homebrew. That nasty twang. About a year ago, a fellow brought a keg of his all grain brew to a social gathering. Very tasty, and so I started to do some research.

I have a converted keg and burner stand with three ring burner. I have some other stuff which I could make into a 3v rig, which sounds interesting, however decided to start simple.

Yesterday, making of wort actually happened.

Dr Smurtos Golden Ale, BIAB 20l batch.

The brew went quite well, however a couple of questions have arisen which I would appreciate clarification on.

I ended up with a SG of 1.042, where target was 1.047 (calc), and 18l in the fermentor (target 20l).

The fermentor is a bunnings 30l square drum, and has about 1cm of crap in the bottom. This is after transferring to a cube (20l jerry) which I tipped into the fermentor totally (without tap on it - so just a tip) At the end of the boil (after putting 1/2 whirlfloc in at 5 mins), I gave it a good stir/whirlpool. Left for 10 mins or so, but convection seemed to take over from the whirlpool. Should I wait for it to cool down a bit before whirlpooling? The trub was evenly over the bottom of the keggle, and I obviously sucked some of it into the no-chill cube. Any suggestions on how I can improve this aspect?

I don't really understand how I ended up with 18l in the nochill/fermentor (especially considering the SG - surely it should be higher??). I used Brewmate to calculate strike volume etc. Ended up at 65.3 degrees at end of mash (in kettle with sleeping bag around it). 22l at end of boil, and 2l lost to trub (included in calcs and measured with a measure jug from the kettle during cleaning). My measurements must be off somewhere (btw, no beers during the process). Dipstick used to measure - marked by filling with 2l jug into kettle, maybe this is off.

What does the SG value vs predicted tell you? What could I do better/went wrong? What does this mean for alc content? Low? What do I adjust in brewmate?

I have favored coopers sparkling for the last couple of years, so this wort was interesting, quite hoppy. I also got a James Squire Hop Thief and Fat Yak today out of interest. After smelling and using Hops (Amarillo, but I also have some Cascade) I found these very interesting to drink. Very hoppy.

Anyway, a bit of a ramble, but appreciate any pointers. Going to brew again tomorrow as have enough grain for another Smurto. And it was quite fun

 

[Yob]

Losses can be tricky to track down, did you do a water run through to test your systems inherent losses? ie losses to kettle below pickup tube?, keep in mind also that grains will absorb 1lt and if you didn't allow to 'fully' drain, this number will be larger.

Can take a few runs for things to settle down but as a start, add the liters you were short to the next run through.

Efficiency is even harder to track down.

 

[JasonP]

DiD you mill your own grain? That's the most likely culprit for low efficiency. Did you stir during the mash period? 1.042 is still an ok starting gravity. The beer should still be ok. Might taste more bitter than you planned.

What was mash temp at start of mashing?

 

[Mr B]

Didn't do a water boil run through, but did a kettle drain to see how much would be left below the pickup - 2l should be pretty true.

Drained the bag for 5 mins or so, gave it a squeeze, and put it in a pot and tipped a hundred or so mls which came out back in the pot.

I seemed to lose the ltrs during the boil, but the SG (if I have it correctly) was low - where if I lost eg more to evap it should have been high? Appreciate confirmation on this.

Method:

According to Brewmate - 28l strike.

26l end of mash (raised temp to 77 before removing grain, and squeezed for a bit).

22l end of boil. 2l trub.

And, 18l into nochil/fermentor (based on fermentor level). Accept there would be a little shrinkage, but not that much.

 

[Mr B]

Full Pint Grain, so expertly milled. Stirred at end of mash a couple of times (in bag) whilst raising temp to mashout.

I'm all good as to what the taste is, trying to get my head around what I have done and what I could do better - though it would be less of a mind bender....

Hence, expert opinions appreciated

 

[JasonP]

Not necessarily expertly milled. What was the grain bill and start mash temp? Did you sparge? How much and what temp?

And mash length?

 

[Mr B]

Not necessarily expertly milled. What was the grain bill and start mash temp? Did you sparge? How much and what temp?

And mash length?

4.25kg grain total, 28l strike vol.

Strike at 69 degrees, target 66, after 60 mins mash was 65.3 so probably pretty good there.

No sparge, but a squeeze and mash out at 77

 

[DU99]

Was the grain milled for BIAB

 

[JasonP]

I don't biab but would have thought a lot of sugar still retained on the grist without sparging. Do biab'ers sparge?

 

[Mr B]

Wow, this is like million dollar minute

Appreciate the help though

Not specifically milled for BIAB.

They may sparge sometimes, but some guys get quite high efficiency without that. I thought the 77 degree mashout should contribute to 'fairly' high efficiency

I squeezed the grain too.

 

[Yob]

28 strike - 4 - 2 leaves 22l

A 4 litre evaporation from the boil isn't unreasonable.

I think your volume issues are right there.. For a few missing point, add a handful or 2 of grains.

Have you worked out your evaporation rate?

 

[philmud]

Strike volume sounds low to me. I usually make 23L batches & have around 36L strike water. Worth considering that your efficiency may have been even lower if your volume was bang on. I set my software at 65% & occasionally do better.

 

[Mr B]

28 strike - 4 - 2 leaves 22l

A 4 litre evaporation from the boil isn't unreasonable.

I think your volume issues are right there.. For a few missing point, add a handful or 2 of grains.

Have you worked out your evaporation rate?

So you assume that 4kg of grain takes 2l water? (ok ,software assume 0.6l per kg =2.4 (not second guessing, just putting for reference)?

Don't know evap rate apart from above. 60 min boil (from 1 boil) = 4l

So should be on track. Software predicted 25.4 pre boil and 22.8 post boil. Actual was 26 and 22 (not as accurate though).

You mean vol or % issues?

Strike volume sounds low to me. I usually make 23L batches & have around 36L strike water. Worth considering that your efficiency may have been even lower if your volume was bang on. I set my software at 65% & occasionally do better.

Software set at 70%.


Ok so I seem to have have low efficiency (which is ok, just want to know). Software set at 70%. I change the % to 65 and it doesnt change the strike water vol? Should this be less?


I don't really understand what I need to adjust to hit desired parameters - which could be down to inaccurate measurements,, but maybe more/other than that?

 

[philmud]

Sorry, I just meant that your efficiency would have been even lower if your volume targets were met, efficiency settings won't alter strike volume - they were two separate observations. What software are you using?

Edit: sorry, I see it's brewmate. Did you enter in things like kettle diameter etc? This will affect the expected boil-off & therefore strike volume. Try entering the same details into the BIAB spreadsheet that's hosted on AHB & see if it suggests the same strike volume.

 

[wombil]

I find that predicted results from software,(I use brewmate too),are not exactly what you get.
There are a lot of variables in gear ,process,etc.
In this case I would just increase the water a few litres and add 200 gm of base malt and see how it goes.
You just have to adjust things to your own system when starting out.
Cheers,
Hope this helps a bit.

 

[Yob]

Grain absorbs 1 Lt/kg, least that's the figure I've always used.

 

[contrarian]

It's pretty hard to draw any meaningful conclusions from one brew. Unfortunately the only way to get things sorted out is more brewing and measuring things as accurately as possible along the way.

On a simple system you should have it sorted in 4-5 brews!

 

[Spiesy]

4.25kg grain total, 28l strike vol.

Strike at 69 degrees, target 66, after 60 mins mash was 65.3 so probably pretty good there.

No sparge, but a squeeze and mash out at 77

Hey Mr B.,

Our mill default setting is a 1.3mm gap. I BIAB myself, and I generally hit just above 70% efficiency on my system - depending on the grain mash ratio and mash temp.
If I mill a little finer and mash for a couple of hours, I can get up around 75%.
I don't squeeze my bag and I don't mash out.

One thing I will recommend is measuring your actual mash temp.
Once you've added your grain to your water, give it a good stir to break up any clumps (preferably with a mash paddle) and then take a temp reading, using a tried and tested thermometer.
With cheaper stick thermometers they often require immersion for quite a period of time before hitting their actual temp - this can be problematic, as many people don't wait the required time and end up thinking their mash temp is substantially lower than what it is. I suffered from this when I first started brewing, and ended up ditching the stick thermometer and getting something fast and accurate.

65% efficiency certainly isn't horrible, but 70%+ should be achievable.
More important than a high efficiency is repeatability. If you can get both, you're on a good thing.

 

[Mr B]

Thanks guys

I decided to repeat without varying anything - Just mashed in, actual temp is 67 - Using a stick digital thermometer. Not a bad idea to check its readings, I'll have to do that.

Any tips on the whirlpool to minimise trub into nochill cube? I plan to let it sit for 15 mins or so at end of boil and then whirlpool, let sit another 10 and then drain.

 

[storeboughtcheeseburgers]

Thanks guys

I decided to repeat without varying anything - Just mashed in, actual temp is 67 - Using a stick digital thermometer. Not a bad idea to check its readings, I'll have to do that.

Any tips on the whirlpool to minimise trub into nochill cube? I plan to let it sit for 15 mins or so at end of boil and then whirlpool, let sit another 10 and then drain.

I bought a jiggle syphon a while ago and was like WTF am I going to do with this thing - but like many of my homebrew acquisitions it comes in handy.

For the first time yesterday, i stirred rapidly I ladled the first 21 Litres of brew into a ferm once it had settled in a few minutes (my usual practice) but this time I used the jiggle syphon for the residual 21L to the cube. Highly recommend - it sucked up virtually all the liquid and left all the trub and hop matter on the bottom of the boiler. Took me a while to get a handle on but.

I wouldn't worry too much about trub for your first few goes, as you'll be getting your system right. I never went the BIAB step, I went straight for the 3v esky mash tun, 70L SS pot, 3 ring burner setup. I can say I won't be changing my brewery as it is great for me and I've got my head around it.

It does get easier, once you weasle out the hiccups that need attention and the things you can relax a bit on, brew days are much easier. I usually start a mash low.. 64ish while I'm wetting the grains and slowly ramp it up to 65-66 - I keep a pan of 4-5litres 80-90 degree water on hand for this purpose.

Stick therms are fine - I started on Brewmate, but went and purchased beersmith, which I find to be a much better piece of software.