Meaty Taste

[punkin]

Hi, i've done a search and can't find anything. I brewed a version of Ross's Summer Ale but substituted the Nelson for Citra in a direct sub. My first taste of Citra.

Tapped a keg last night after 5 days in the kegerator, it has a nice citrus twang, but immediately after that comes a strong 'meaty' taste that just overwhelms all. The hops were a new sealed kilo packet that had been stored in my freezer and looked and smelt good.

The us05 was pitched hot at 28C as that was all i could get the beer down to with my immersion chiller. The fermenter was in an airconditioned room though and would have dropped overnight and sat in the low 20's somewhere. This is how i do all my beers as i can't afford ferment control and i've never had this problem before.

Is it a ferment problem? An infection? Or is it a characteristic of the hops?

I have 4 kegs of this to chew through and fear i'll need a knive and fork.

 

[kario]

raw meat? or cooked meat?

 

[bradsbrew]

Is it a smoked meat like bacon?

 

[punkin]

Cooked meat i think. I'm not much good at this type of tasting thing. i'm a basic guy.





OnlyKnowSixColoursPunkin

 

[kario]

hmmm...raw meat, cooked meat, bacon.....pretty distinct flavours/aromas....surely you've eaten/smelt them in the past.

 

[goomboogo]

Did you use gelatin?

 

[punkin]

hmmm...raw meat, cooked meat, bacon.....pretty distinct flavours/aromas....surely you've eaten/smelt them in the past.

Is there extra points for being an *******?

The flavours in raw meat, cooked meat and bacon are very distinct, yes.


The flavour in my beer is s lot less distinct and mixed in with all the other beer flavours in a very highly hopped beer (for me) with a very strong hop.

 

[manticle]

Some fatty acids can cause a goaty taste (no idea if that's what you are tasting) and yeast autolysis can contribute a flavour described as meaty.

I haven't experienced these in my own beer so this is purely from reading.

http://www.bacchus-barleycorn.com/catalog/...?articles_id=15

http://www.google.com.au/search?q=meaty+au...aCabmmAXvm_ioCA

 

[Greg.L]

I have noticed a meaty smell coming from spent grain a day or 2 after mashing. Perhaps there was something in your mashing process that extracted too much protein, just speculating. The other possibly I can see is the high temperature at pitching upsetting the yeast.

Greg

 

[chunckious]

I have noticed a meaty smell coming from spent grain a day or 2 after mashing. Perhaps there was something in your mashing process that extracted too much protein, just speculating. The other possibly I can see is the high temperature at pitching upsetting the yeast.

Greg

My experience from pitching at a high temp (28) is a alcoholic/spirit taste. Got worse as the beer aged. Slammed em down quick once I caught on.

 

[punkin]

Thanks guys, it only sat fermenting for 7-8 days, so i don't think it's autolysis. Mashing was the same as always. It's quite pronounced but hard for me to describe as i don't have the palete or the vocabulary.

I'll sit down with a piece of paper when i have a beer this afternoon. The missus was no help, all she said was citrus.

 

[Steve@PMF82]

As others have suggested look at your yeast health. You can make great wort every time but if you go ass about on the cold side its all for nothing.

I know you cant do the temp control in fridge ect ect, i think i remember a previous thread going into that subject. I am pretty sure you do large batches maybe doubles??

If you could get a half 150L plastic drum to sit your fermenter in with some water and ice bottles and a floating thermometer, then pitch some healthy yeast, i believe that could make a large difference to your beers.

 

[kario]

Is there extra points for being an *******?

The flavours in raw meat, cooked meat and bacon are very distinct, yes.


The flavour in my beer is s lot less distinct and mixed in with all the other beer flavours in a very highly hopped beer (for me) with a very strong hop.

:huh: ....who's being an "*******"?

I'm no expert, but apologies for trying to help out by narrowing down this taste you speak of.

 

[alcoadam]

G'Day Punkin,

I think I have an idea of the flavour your describing, I was having a similiar problem a little while back. You can identify this "meaty" flavour vaguely in the smell and can taste it as an "aftertaste"?

I couldn't work out what it was or where it was comming from. I ruled out everything in the brewing process except in the mashing, so my guess would be that this is your problem. Coincidence or not I seemed to have fixed the problem with a good "false bottom/thermometer" in the mash tun and better sparge practices. (just my 2c)

Though I also found the "meaty" flavour would greatly diminish after 1 month + of aging the beer in a racking vessel. I was close to throwing this beer out but in the end was glad I didn't...so you may find by the time you get to keg #4, you have a better beer..?!

Cheers.

 

[punkin]

Yes, quadruple batches.

Thanks Adam, trying one now and it's definately an aftertaste. Hits as the last swallow goes down.

I really am trying to pin it down, but as i said, tween my bodgy palete and my 3rd form vocabulary i've hit a wall.


Maybe it is in the hops? I don't know..

It gives me a picture of lumps of greasy grey meat. It's not a strong taste, but as you can imagine, not one i want in my beer, so it's bringing a lot of attention to itself.

Could be that it's not as strong as it was yesterday even, it's only the third glass from the keg (that's been glycerined) so maybe it is yeast?

I wish there were more allgrain homebrewers in my circle of friends that's for sure.

 

[manticle]

Is there extra points for being an *******?

Bit rough. Doubt kario was deliberately being an arsehole.

I could be wrong.

I would be inclined to relate the flavour to yeast health but try and get an expert opinion resulting from an actual tasting.. I believe you're close to MHB? and while I personally wouldn't shop there, if you have a positive relationship with the guy, I'm confident he knows enough to steer you in the right direction.

 

[fergi]

i had this same taste in a kolsch that i made a couple of months ago, first taste is nice in the mouth but the after the initial mouthful there was this cooked meat flavour in the back of the palate,
i reckon it was my yeast because it was my first liquid yeast and i stuffed it up by not stepping it up properly, it took 48 hours before it kicked in and i am sure it stressed the yeast.

the next kolsch i made the yeast was treated properly and the kolsch was great.

fergi

 

[bum]

As I recall, the word "meaty" was thrown about a bit in the wash-up from BribieG's cold break experiment. Give that thread once over and see if you think might be related/at all relevant.

[EDIT: Gave that thread a quick peruse and it seems the word used as in "ballsy" rather than actual meat. Disregard.]

 

[punkin]

The more i drink it the more i'm thinkin an infection.

One that i've never tasted before, but still.

Tried a second keg and it's there as well.






I'm nearly four hours drive from Newcastle.

 

[manticle]

I'm nearly four hours drive from Newcastle.

I'm thinking, if he's willing, posting a bottle for detailed feedback wouldn't be too much to ask if you're a regular postal/delivery type customer.

Just a possibility.

 

[alcoadam]

The more i drink it the more i'm thinkin an infection.

One that i've never tasted before, but still.

Tried a second keg and it's there as well.






I'm nearly four hours drive from Newcastle.

I gotta laugh at how much your sounding like me when having the same problem...."it must be an infection" but persist on drinking it :lol:

I had put on a FWK between AG batches with the US05 without a hint of this problem and ruled out infection, I'd really consider the mashing side of things.

I've many times put a good quality wort through not so great fermenting temperatures as well, but still ended up with something very drinkable....

 

[freezkat]

I'm thinking, if he's willing, posting a bottle for detailed feedback wouldn't be too much to ask if you're a regular postal/delivery type customer.

Just a possibility.

drink a beer while eating meat. That will give you other clues to the flavor

 

[Where's Jim?]

I had a beer that ended with a moderate bacon taste and smell with it. It was a beer that we had f'd up to start with. Second batch ever; water volumes were nowhere near correct, boiled too long and vigorously - ended up with about 5L of super concentrated wort. Topped up to 23L, pitched a packet of dry yeast and left it in the cupboard to ferment. It become stuck at 1.020 and we shoved it aside and left it for a few months in the fermenter before deciding to bottle half and tip half.

It stayed on the primary yeast cake the whole time. Gravity checks and tastings stopped after about a month; at which point in time the flavours were fine. A few months later during bottling, we discovered the bacon notes. Bottled and carbed it up and my mates megaswill drinking dad has deemed it 'drinkable' and is now making his way through 10 pints of our bacon beer!

Based on Manticles links about autolysis and my (very limited) experience, I'd say it's got something to do with the yeast health.

Did you proof your dry yeast before pitching? Or just sprinkle it over the top of your wort and close the fermenter? Palmer and Zainasheff speak about how half of the dry yeast will die if you use the latter method.

 

[pcmfisher]

now what did happen to those pork chops I was thawing out for the bbq........

 

[Nick JD]

I think the best descriptor for "meaty" in a beer is umami.

I've had it from using a couple of Wyeast euro lager strains, and it's not an unpleasant flavour at all. It's a flavour I associate with strong lagers. It's just there as a background hint, and could also be described as "yeasty", even though the beer is filtered bright. Certain hops promote it (I especially find Tettnang and Willamette suit it as they are "earthy" in a 'shroom way - Fuggles too I suppose if I liked it).

It's flavour enhancer 631 IIRC, and wouldn't be at all surprised if sometimes yeast produce it (or something similar) under certain conditions that favour the breakdown of glutamic acid way before age-affected yeast autolysis has started. Yeast dies constantly in fermenting beer.

To be honest, I have thought of putting a bit of 631 in a robust smokey (Wey smoked) porter before.

 

[drsmurto]

A few of the simple thiol compunds produced by yeast if they are unhappy can be described as meat like. I smelt some wine ferments last week that had a definite boiled meat flavour/aroma.

The likely suspects are hydrogen sulphide (H2S) and methanethiol, both produced by yeast naturally but in elevated levels when they are stressed. H2S by itself is more commonly described as smelling like rotten eggs but when other thiol compounds are present the smell/taste changes to a more pungent, meat-like.

When you have large hopping rates you often hide the aromas of these compunds but in high enough concentrations you can taste them even when you can only smell the citrus from the hops.

Pitching at 28C is not ideal but if the temperature is brought down reasonably quickly then you should be ok.

How much yeast did you pitch? What was the lag time?

If you have any 1 or 2 cent pieces (or better yet, an english penny) drop it into a glass of the beer. If you don't have any use some copper wire. Does the flavour change?

 

[donburke]

funny enough, i have had a meaty flavour in my beer twice, the first time was 2 years ago, and the second was a month ago, it is the same flavour that i best describe as raw beef

i had a look at the 2 recipes, and they had completely different grain bills, and completely different hops, and different yeasts, in fact one was an ale the other a lager

the common denominator of these two brews were that they were pitched quite warm (s-189 @ 24deg and us05 @ 30 deg)

the more recent brew was of 60 litres, 40 litres using s-189 and 20 litres using a belgian saison yeast

the 20 litres fermented with saison yeast does not have that flavour

i have concluded that in my case it was the yeast being pitched too hot

 

[Nick JD]

H2S by itself is more commonly described as smelling like rotten eggs but when other thiol compounds are present the smell/taste changes to a more pungent, meat-like.

Meat? Dead body covered in **** found in a sewer more like...

I think the OP means a "meaty" taste, rather than something that makes you retch.

 

[punkin]

It's an infection, one that i've never had before, but rapidly swelled to undrinkable stage.

Had to disconnect the gas from two kegs in the keezer cause i was starting to taste it in the other beers. :angry:

I'm getting rid of the 100l blue drum i got for quad batches, and going no chill in a 60l fermenter. no problem to ferment two batches a week instead of one a fortnight.
This one has been nothing but problems.

 

[manticle]

Damn.

Sorry for your loss.