Mash Temp & O.g.

[Barge]

G'day all,

Threw together a partial the other day using a bucket in bucket mash tun and about 2.5kg of grain. Mashed at 63 C for an hour. Planned for and got 23L post-boil but the O.G. is a few points off. It's the first time I've used the set-up and the first time I've mashed to make a highly fermentable wort, so I'm interested to know if a wort comprised of maltose will have a lower O.G. than a more dextrinous wort (at the same efficiency).

Cheers,
Barge

 

[DJR]

It shouldn't affect the OG at all, your efficiency is down is all i'd say. Did you perform a mashout step? Was the crush different?

 

[Boots]

Yeah lower mash temp will only affect final gravity. It'll make the same amount of sugars (everything else remaining equal) but the type of sugars are easier to break down so you'll end up with a lower final grav.

To be honest, if you had of hit expected OG when using new gear i would have been amazed

edit: added"final"

 

[cj in j]

Another vote for new equipment. Either that or a different crush. h34r:

 

[Kai]

I think it's feasible that a different mash composition will theoretically result in a different gravity reading and it will be different again depending on whether you use a hydrometer or a refractometer.

However, in this instance I would also point my finger at the equipment.

 

[sah]

I've been all grain brewing for over 12 months now with the same equipment and I'm still getting efficiency variances of up to 10% batch to batch. Its annoying. I haven't nailed what the problem is. I'm looking at Ph at the moment.

It sounds like this is new equipment for you. Expect to be either side of expected gravity. It takes some time to work it out.

All the best.
Scott

 

[lonte]

I've been all grain brewing for over 12 months now with the same equipment and I'm still getting efficiency variances of up to 10% batch to batch. Its annoying. I haven't nailed what the problem is. I'm looking at Ph at the moment.

It sounds like this is new equipment for you. Expect to be either side of expected gravity. It takes some time to work it out.

All the best.
Scott

I've been AG about the same time and two things i'm finding more relevant than I expected are mash temp variances (63C vs. 66C make very different beers) and secondly how pH certainly affects efficiency. What I want to know, given the full modification of today's grains, is how to adjust pH quickly enough to give the B-amylase the right pH given that conversion takes place so quickly??

 

[DJR]

I've been AG about the same time and two things i'm finding more relevant than I expected are mash temp variances (63C vs. 66C make very different beers) and secondly how pH certainly affects efficiency. What I want to know, given the full modification of today's grains, is how to adjust pH quickly enough to give the B-amylase the right pH given that conversion takes place so quickly??

Just make sure there is enough Calcium in the mash, and preadjust your strike water with some food grade acid (lactic, phosphoric etc) before you add it into the mash. Pretty much as soon as the water hits the grain the pH should be correct. Use gypsum (adds sulfate crispness, good for hoppy styles) or calcium chloride for lighter/malty styles. I was doing about 5.8 pH which is not bad to start off with, the addition of 1/8tsp of Gypsum and a pinch of citric to the strike water has brought that down to ~5.3 pH pretty much every time.

 

[cj in j]

Can you guys get Five Star's pH 5.2 Stabilizer in Australia? It works as advertised. I hit 5.2 every time, and even after sparging with non-treated water, the pH never goes above 5.5 or 5.6, no where near the "danger zone" of 6.0. It's kind of expensive, but one tube goes a long way.

 

[lonte]

Can you guys get Five Star's pH 5.2 Stabilizer in Australia? It works as advertised. I hit 5.2 every time, and even after sparging with non-treated water, the pH never goes above 5.5 or 5.6, no where near the "danger zone" of 6.0. It's kind of expensive, but one tube goes a long way.

Grain and Grape in Melbourne have it.

 

[Barge]

Cheers fellas,

Must be the equipment...too be expected really. Will have to start measuring pH now, though. Didn't realise it made such a difference

Thanks again,
Barge

 

[sah]

Thanks for the information on pH guys. It's exactly what I'm looking for at the moment. I've found a source for calcium chloride at the local pet food shop. I'm using plaster of paris for gypsum which I'm not terribly comfortable with. I might chase up something else.

Of the two recent brews I did with a 10% efficiency variance. One was a bitter and I'd used gypsum and a little epsom salt to burtonise the water. I hit 80% with this one. Two days later I did a coopers pale clone with all light malts and no water adjustment. It came in at 70%.

What about the food grade acids you have mentioned. Where can you buy that stuff? Supermarket?

thanks
Scott

 

[Barry]

Good Day
I have been trying, a bit, to find calcium chloride in Sydney. Can some one tell me the details of a supplier?

 

[sah]

I have been trying, a bit, to find calcium chloride in Sydney. Can some one tell me the details of a supplier?

Hi Barry,

I know its out of your way but the pet shop next to Figtree Cellars has it. If you really struggle let me know and we'll arrange something.

regards
Scott

 

[Barry]

Good Day
Thanks a lot Scott, I will go for a drive when I have the time.

 

[bigfridge]

Good Day
I have been trying, a bit, to find calcium chloride in Sydney. Can some one tell me the details of a supplier?

Hi Barry,

We don't have it listed on the NNL store yet, but do have it in stock. We use it in all our beers and Wort Packs.

I will send you some - how much would you like ?

Dave

 

[Cortez The Killer]

Hi Barry,

I know its out of your way but the pet shop next to Figtree Cellars has it. If you really struggle let me know and we'll arrange something.

regards
Scott

Hey sah

I'm looking at moving into all grain and I'm in wollongong too - i've had a look at the water analysis from sydney water http://www.sydneywater.com.au/Publications...terAnalysis.pdf

but i can't make heads or tails of it

how does the water in wollongong rate?

what sort of additions are necessary?

cheers

 

[Stuster]

Cortez

your water either comes from Illawarra or Woronora (have a look at p.1 of that link to see). Either way, like for Sydney, you have soft water with low levels of all the ions that are important in brewing. If you are brewing a very light beer you'd be best to add some calcium sulphate (gypsum) for hoppy beers or calcium chloride for non-hoppy beers. If you are doing something dark you'd need to add some calcium chloride (chalk). These chemicals lower (CaSO4 and CaCl) and raise (CaCO4) the pH of the mash so you get to the right level. Have a look at John Palmer's description here. You can download the spreadsheet at the bottom of that page and put in the values for your water from that link to work out how much of them you need to add.

Or just add the Five Star 5.2 stabiliser.

 

[sah]

Hi Cortez,

None are absolutely necessary and for now I would recommend you don't worry about it until you have some brews under your belt with whatever gear you build.

But to answer your question, using the document you referred to as the source, Calcium 15.5 ppm, Magnesium 1.7 ppm, Sodium 8.5 ppm, Sulphate 3 ppm, Chloride 17 ppm, Bicarbonate 39.7 ppm. pH 8.2. So in all its pretty soft and the pH is a little high. I don't know how accurate that report is or what the variance is though. I think it's pretty much a case of near enough is good enough.

You should definitely join the Illawarra Brewers Union http://www.ibunion.org. Come along to a brew day and have a look at some equipment and the process etc. I'm planning on putting on a day at my place in the new year.

All the best.

Scott

 

[DJR]

Only thing that you would want to add extra (above and beyond the usual calcium and acid/buffer addition to the strike water) is some Zinc directly to the fermenter, if you get some of the Nature's own chelated zinc tablets they have a very useful measure of 22mg of zinc per tablet, 1/4 of a tablet crushed and added to the fermenter at pitching really helps the fermentation get going. Especially in Sydney that has extremely low levels of Zinc, and that which does make it into the water gets chelated out by the break proteins in the boil/chill.

Food grade acid you can buy at Woolies/Coles - as McKenzies Citric Acid, sold in the baking section. Very useful for Sydney water - the pH is quite high at 8 or so, 1/8 to 1/4 of a tsp or so of citric to the mash water helps this come down to a more reasonable figure in the mash.