Mash Out question

[mattyh77]

So when mashing out, when do you start to increase the temp.
Eg, recipe calls for a 90 min mash at 66 degrees, then mash out at 78 for 10 mins. My equip takes about 10 mins to increase the temp, so do I start the increase at 80 mins or at 90 mins?

 

[droid]

If you can get to mash out at that rate then mash out begins when you hit 78

 

[dblunn]

At 90 min but it is not critical.

 

[Rocker1986]

On that example you'd start ramping the temp up after 90 minutes, when it reaches 78C then you start the 10 minute timer. That's the way I've always done it anyway.

 

[mattyh77]

Thanks for the replies. Will do that for next time.
I did start ramp up at 80 min, then held for 10 min once reached 78.

 

[peteru]

I doubt that with a 90 minute mash, going 10 minutes this way or that way would make any significant difference.

 

[laxation]

What does mashing out mean?


... you know, in case anyone reading this doesn't know. Which isn't me. obviously.

 

[mtb]

What does mashing out mean?


... you know, in case anyone reading this doesn't know. Which isn't me. obviously.

:lol:

Increasing the temperature of your mash before draining/sparging, but after the starch conversion has taken place - so after, say, a 60min mash at mash temps. Gets you better mash efficiency because science.

 

[technobabble66]

Mashing out simply means raising your mash temp to ~76-79*c at the end of the mash, immediately prior to draining the mash.
The temp is raised for 3 reasons:
1) as it rises, any remaining enzymes act faster with higher temps just prior to denaturing, so it helps guarantee they finish their job
2) as you get close to the higher temps, the enzymes will all be denatured/destroyed, so it"sets" or locks in the wort profile (ie: the proportions of fermentables & non-fermentables)
3) the higher temp allows for better flow/extraction of sugars from the mash, as the sugars/wort has a lower viscosity at higher temps (picture how honey or golden syrup flows as you warm it up)

I think that's it [emoji6]

 

[earle]

The answer probably depends on why you're mashing out in the first place. The traditional reason for a mash out was to denature(kill) the enzymes to stop and lock in your wort profile as above. In this case timing and length of mash out is likely to be more important.

I BIAB in an urn so the reason I mash out is per no.3 in the above post - the higher temp is supposed to "loosen" the sugars and allow better extraction from the mash - probably more relevant to a 1V system than a 2 or 3v where you would be lautering and sparging.

I will generally mash for the 90 minutes, then turn on the urn to ramp up the temp, once it has reached desired temp I hoist the bag immediately - don't bother with holding at that temp.

 

[Rocker1986]

Yes, the main reason I mash out is also point number 3 and I also BIAB in an urn. I leave it sit at that temp for 10 minutes though before hoisting the bag and letting it drain.

 

[labels]

I think the whole mash-out process is a load of bullshit and have never done it. I do however, heat my first runnings pretty quickly in the kettle to above mash-out temps to stem the flow of too much simple sugars and preserve the malt profile.

I firmly believe Denny Conn is right.

https://www.homebrewersassociation.org/how-to-brew/6-common-homebrew-myths-denny-conn/

 

[Ducatiboy stu]

I think the whole mash-out process is a load of bullshit and have never done it. I do however, heat my first runnings pretty quickly in the kettle to above mash-out temps to stem the flow of too much simple sugars and preserve the malt profile.

I firmly believe Denny Conn is right.

https://www.homebrewersassociation.org/how-to-brew/6-common-homebrew-myths-denny-conn/

Yes I have been saying that as well for years....but I sparge with boiling water..( I wont go there ) kind of like heating your first runnings to get a desired result

 

[shacked]

I have found that mashing out is worth 4 to 6 points of gravity for brew in a bag. I think the increased heat improves viscosity and therefore leaves more sugarz in the kettle.

For a 90 minute mash I'd go so far as to say that the difference between ramping at 80 minutes or 90 minutes will not be perceptible from either a flavor or efficiency perspective. Your conversion will be done and you'll be on your way to delicious beer.

 

[Danscraftbeer]

I find myself nodding to reading that last link too. Mash Out? What does it get you if anything???? I'm yet to see anything. I mash, batch sparge in an esky.

Interesting that myth about high temps of mash getting off flavours by comparing the decoction method of boiling mash.
I do decoctions ever since trying it and getting great malt flavours.
As for Tannins and astringent like off flavours I believe I've found the culprit to be getting too high brew house efficiency.
Over sparging??? I get up to 85% brew house efficiency but for lighter beers there is an off flavour. Astringent/tannins I believe.
I batch sparge until I fill the keggle and on lower gravity beers I have sometimes sparged until the run off gravity gets lower than 1.010. I think that gets in the realm of tannins buts its a slow time evolution in my little home brewery. Its an off flavour that is easily covered over in higher gravity beers like the old faithfull IPA for example.

 

[manticle]

Yes I have been saying that as well for years....but I sparge with boiling water..( I wont go there ) kind of like heating your first runnings to get a desired result

So you think mash out is bullshit but have another process that results in exactly the same outcome?

 

[goid]

I have lately not been to concerned about mashing out as I batch sparge. First batch of sparging at higher temps will loosen up the sugars.

Decoction is boiling of the mash fluid not the grains. Is it not the grains that hold the components for astringency? If you don't get the grain to temp, it doesn't matter how much your boil the liquid.

Edit: There is other factors than just temp for astringency e.g. PH level.

 

[technobabble66]

...
Decoction is boiling of the mash fluid not the grains. ...

Um... not sure this is correct.
Unless i've been doing it really wrong (plus everyone at the last Vic case swap), I just scoop out grains & liquid into a pot and boil the whole lot.
Subsequently it does raise a few interesting questions about the whole "don't go over 80°C" issue in mash schedules.

 

[mr_wibble]

Um... not sure this is correct.
Unless i've been doing it really wrong (plus everyone at the last Vic case swap), I just scoop out grains & liquid into a pot and boil the whole lot.
Subsequently it does raise a few interesting questions about the whole "don't go over 80°C" issue in mash schedules.

The decoction does destroy the enzymes in the section boiled, but typically there's more than enough left in the mash to carry on.
If your decoction was 100% of your mash, it would be mash over.

 

[klangers]

I think the whole mash-out process is a load of bullshit and have never done it. I do however, heat my first runnings pretty quickly in the kettle to above mash-out temps to stem the flow of too much simple sugars and preserve the malt profile.

I firmly believe Denny Conn is right.

https://www.homebrewersassociation.org/how-to-brew/6-common-homebrew-myths-denny-conn/

Yet he talks about solubility as the cause of lowered viscosity....