Mash Hopping Vs First Wort Hopping

[reviled]

Have you done either of the above? Im keen to know what sort of flavour, aroma and bitterness aspects you can expect from both mash and fw hopping..

Shane Morley at Steam brewing was telling me that he FWH sometimes and it gives an oxidised hop flavour and a bit of aroma also - so would this also be counted as a 90 min addition for bitterness?

And whats the difference with mash hopping? Does this give you bitterness as well? Or just flavour/aroma? Assuming of course that the hops arent making it into the boil and are just being 'steeped' at mash temp

let me know your experiences I did my first mash hop in the weekend but only with a small amount so will have to wait a little bit before I find out what I acheived..

 

[matti]

Hey reviled.
How much did you use for the mash hop?
My recollection of mash hopping is that you need to use about thrice the amount to achieve the same bitteness.
Reportedly the taste is smoother at higher IBUs the normal hopping schedule.

I can not say if it is worth the effort as i cannot afford that amount of hops.

But let us go the FHW hopping path.

This is almost Standard for me these days when I do find time for brewing.
I take about 2/3 of all bittering hops and FWH. Boil for 90 minutes and then proceed with the remaining hops at 60, 40, 20 and flamout depending on the Beer I am attempting to make.

I have found that the bittering is smoother and it works best with dual hops like Northern Brewer, Hallertau Aroma and Perle in lager styles because the high Alpha acids and fairly high Beta acids going with it.

In British beers Northdown and challenger is my picks.

As for APAs there are no rules IMO. If you want to accentuate the flavour rather then the aroma I'd use more FWH and flavour addition and dry hop moderately.

I'd say experiment of you have the time and can afford the hops.

Matti

I am no expert hence the wishy washy post LOL

 

[matti]

just a short note to rectify the second post.
I meant of course there are no bitterness At all from hops in mash hopping as the the hops does not get exposed to the boil. But the amount of hop to achieve an excellent aroma from mash hopping means you need a !@#$load of hops.

 

[Batz]

Mash hopping is just a waste of hops IMO.

FHW can be beneficial in some brews.There's plenty of info available on this.

Batz

 

[warrenlw63]

I was reading on the Murray's website that they mash hop for their Icon2 Pale Ale. I guess that's evidence of at least one commercial brewer who implements it.

Warren -

 

[reviled]

Interesting.. I only threw 10gms of 6.7% Motueka in the mash cos I thought why the hell not as I was only using one hop for this particular brew..

Could be worth a try with something cheap like Nelson Sauvin or something?

Ok then, lets talk FWH, ive been told it can work alot better with noble hops like you pointed out Matti.. Does anyone else have any experiances?

 

[reviled]

I was reading on the Murray's website that they mash hop for their Icon2 Pale Ale. I guess that's evidence of at least one commercial brewer who implements it.

Warren -

Ive got more evidence, this recipe here for Pliny the elder calls for 42gms of Chinook in the mash hop, and Pliny is just such an awesome beer :icon_drool2:

OG - 1074 FG - 1011, IBU's 256

5.5kg Pale
130g Crystal 40L
390g Cara-Pils
455g Sugar
Mash hop : 42g Chinook
90 : 78g Warrior, 14g Columbus
45 : 28g Simcoe
30 : 28g Columbus
FO : 64g Centennial, 28g Simcoe
Dry hop 2 weeks : 28g Columbus, 21g Centennial, 35g Simcoe

 

[Ross]

Mash hopping is just a waste of hops IMO.

FHW can be beneficial in some brews.There's plenty of info available on this.

Batz

+1

This very question was posted quite recently with plenty of varying replys if you care to search for it.

Cheers Ross

 

[reviled]

+1

This very question was posted quite recently with plenty of varying replys if you care to search for it.

Cheers Ross

**** sorry I did search, ill try again

 

[Ross]

**** sorry I did search, ill try again

Wasn't having a go (I hate the answer "use the search button")....just letting you know there is some good discussion already

Cheers Ross

 

[hazard]

**** sorry I did search, ill try again

Reviled, I tried FWH recently and posted my observations in this thread

http://www.aussiehomebrewer.com/forum/inde...showtopic=32016

I had another one of these brews last night, and I continue to be delighted with the results - lots of hop aroma, and a strong hop foundation to the flavour that is, however, not overly bitter. I recently read in BYO mag someone refer to this as "refined bitterness".

I think it is worthwhile experimenting with this for anything that requires late hop additions.

Hazard

 

[reviled]

Wasn't having a go (I hate the answer "use the search button")....just letting you know there is some good discussion already

Cheers Ross

No worries mate, had a bit of a search I can find something from Nov which refers to your Sauvin summer ale, is this what you mean? Couldnt find anything more recent..

 

[reviled]

Reviled, I tried FWH recently and posted my observations in this thread

http://www.aussiehomebrewer.com/forum/inde...showtopic=32016

I had another one of these brews last night, and I continue to be delighted with the results - lots of hop aroma, and a strong hop foundation to the flavour that is, however, not overly bitter. I recently read in BYO mag someone refer to this as "refined bitterness".

I think it is worthwhile experimenting with this for anything that requires late hop additions.

Hazard

Cheers mate B)

Seems theres a bit of conflicting information eh? I might have to do a single hop brew and try everything, mash hop, fwh, and a shitload of late additions :beerbang:

 

[mje1980]

99% of my beers are FWH'd. Love it, and for me it works great. Tried mash hopping but noticed nothing. I think for mash hopping you'd need a shedload of hops.

10g is a drop in the ocean i believe for mash hopping.

Most FWH beers i do are minimum 50g for a 36 litre ( post boil ) batch. Plus late hops, and maybe a small 60 min addition. I like to have at least 50% of IBU's from FWH. I have done 100% FWH, which worked great. Just used a lot of hops!!.

 

[reviled]

10g is a drop in the ocean i believe for mash hopping.

I would probably agree with you, I just thought I would try it, it was spur of the moment and I didnt want to overdo it just in case

 

[mje1980]

No worries mate, let us know your experience with it. Always good to try new stuff. And anything that will increase hoppy goodness is even better!

 

[reviled]

Would you count your FWH as a 90 min addition for bitterness?

 

[hazard]

Cheers mate B)

Seems theres a bit of conflicting information eh? I might have to do a single hop brew and try everything, mash hop, fwh, and a shitload of late additions :beerbang:

Reviled, if you're going to try a few differnt techniques, how about making a "hop tea", ie adding hops to hot wort in a coffee plunger, steeping and adding to secondary fermenter? BYO mag discussed this recently, they suggest that you get same effect as late hop additions to kettle but only need 1/3 of the hops, becasue you are not losing flavour/ aroma to the yeast, nor is it blown off by CO2 bubbling through. I haven't tried this so can't comment, but it may be worth a try.

 

[mje1980]

Would you count your FWH as a 90 min addition for bitterness?

I calc my FWH as a 20 min addition, and i boil for 60. Not sure about a 90 min boil, but if i were going to do it, i'd still calc at 20 mins. From john palmers explanation ( which makes sense to me ), the oils in the hops are modified/changed by being in contact with hot ( but not boiling ) wort for such a long time that the bitterness you can get from them is greatly reduced, hence my 20 min calculation. But im sure others will disagree. For the last few years that's how i've done it and been very happy with it. Its all personal preference, and i guess it may also depend on your system ( possibly ), so try it, and see how it goes. If too bitter, drop the amount of hops you FWH, if not bitter enough, add more etc.

I just love the flavour, and smooth bitterness it gives.

Cheers

 

[reviled]

Reviled, if you're going to try a few differnt techniques, how about making a "hop tea", ie adding hops to hot wort in a coffee plunger, steeping and adding to secondary fermenter? BYO mag discussed this recently, they suggest that you get same effect as late hop additions to kettle but only need 1/3 of the hops, becasue you are not losing flavour/ aroma to the yeast, nor is it blown off by CO2 bubbling through. I haven't tried this so can't comment, but it may be worth a try.

Ive read about this before but for some reason assumed it was done with hot water which would be a no no, but with hot wort seems intriguing...

I assume the coffee plunger needs to be completely sanitised of course.. What temp should the wort be when adding the hops for steeping? Around 70*c?