Mandarina wheaty saison

[philmud]

Planning on brewing this on the weekend. All Gladfield malts, belle saison yeast. Would usually go with vienna malt over Munich, but I have some to use up, so I just reduced the amount.

Recipe: New Footscray Saison
Brewer:
Asst Brewer:
Style: Saison
TYPE: All Grain
Taste: (30.0)
Recipe Specifications
--------------------------
Boil Size: 35.98 l
Post Boil Volume: 27.91 l
Batch Size (fermenter): 23.02 l
Bottling Volume: 21.32 l
Estimated OG: 1.047 SG
Estimated Color: 7.2 EBC
Estimated IBU: 28.6 IBUs
Brewhouse Efficiency: 65.00 %
Est Mash Efficiency: 75.8 %
Boil Time: 90 Minutes
Ingredients:
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Amt Name Type # %/IBU
4.00 kg Gladfield Pilsner Malt (3.8 EBC) Grain 1 74.3 %
0.18 kg Gladfield Sour Grapes Malt (4.0 EBC) Grain 2 3.3 %
1.00 kg Gladfield Wheat Malt (4.2 EBC) Grain 3 18.6 %
0.20 kg Gladfield Munich Malt (15.5 EBC) Grain 4 3.7 %
16.00 g Magnum [14.00 %] - Boil 60.0 min Hop 5 24.2 IBUs
0.25 tsp Irish Moss (Boil 10.0 mins) Fining 6 -
28.00 g Mandarina Bavaria [7.30 %] - Boil 5.0 mi Hop 7 4.4 IBUs
0.50 tsp Yeast Nutrient (Boil 5.0 mins) Other 8 -
28.00 g Mandarina Bavaria [7.30 %] - Boil 0.0 mi Hop 9 0.0 IBUs
Mash Schedule: BIAB, Light Body
Total Grain Weight: 5.38 kg
----------------------------
Name Description Step Temperat Step Time
Saccharification Add 39.27 l of water at 67.5 C 64.4 C 90 min
Mash Out Heat to 75.6 C over 7 min 75.6 C 10 min
Sparge: Remove grains, and prepare to boil wort
Notes:
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[philmud]

Scratch the 90 minute boil. Just going with 60

 

[Danscraftbeer]

Not familiar with the grains and I'm using different hops but that looks like what I'm evolving into at the moment. B)

 

[Killer Brew]

Sour grapes malt? I'm intrigued.

 

[Matplat]

Sour grapes malt? I'm intrigued.

+1....

from their website, "Gladfield Sour Grapes malt is designed for pH adjustment in the brew house mash. Sour Grapes is produced through a combination of lactic growth during germination from naturally present bacteria on the grain and a lactic bath prior to kilning grown from the same lactobacillus strains. Recommended usage of between 1% and 5% to achieve target mash pH."

So I guess it is their version of acidulated malt?

 

[Matplat]

Looks like this recipe needs some simple sugaz to make sure it finishes dry...

 

[Adam Howard]

Looks like this recipe needs some simple sugaz to make sure it finishes dry...

With a sub 65 degree mash and Belle Saison yeast it should shoot down to 1.005 or so.....

 

[technobabble66]

^^ agree. Belle is a voracious beast and easily hits high attenuation. That sacch step ~64*C will dry it out.

Looks v tasty, PI !!
Keen to hear more about Mandarina and how it works in different beers/styles

 

[pajs]

I have a Mandarina Bavaria blonde ale/pale ale ish beer finishing off ferment now. Some good smells so far. Will bottle in the next week or so. Tempted to try it in a pale mild recipe too.

 

[philmud]

Sour grapes is effectively acidulated malt. I believe it's Pilsner malt with lactic acid sprayed onto it. It shouldn't affect the flavour but does lower the mash PH, which I'm hoping will be circa 5.2.

I've stopped adding simple sugar to my saisons because with Belle or Wy3711 I always finish very low & dry anyway. I think the Belgian strain might benefit from it more so.

 

[philmud]

I should also say, I would normally use vienna instead of Munich malt. I have some Munich to use up, so I'm going with that at a reduced rate (may up this). Really just looking for a subtle depth/dimension to the malt profile and maybe a touch of colour.

 

[Matplat]

Interesting, ive got a packet of 3711 ready for my saison which should occur in the next week or two.

Jamil says to use cane sugar to get the FG down but he also recommends the belgian strain (hbs only had the french).

Perhaps i can leave out the sugar to reduce the OG, make it a bit more sessionable than 7%!

 

[Killer Brew]

I should also say, I would normally use vienna instead of Munich malt. I have some Munich to use up, so I'm going with that at a reduced rate (may up this). Really just looking for a subtle depth/dimension to the malt profile and maybe a touch of colour.

Which yeast are you looking to use with this recipe?

Interesting, ive got a packet of 3711 ready for my saison which should occur in the next week or two.

Jamil says to use cane sugar to get the FG down but he also recommends the belgian strain (hbs only had the french).

Perhaps i can leave out the sugar to reduce the OG, make it a bit more sessionable than 7%!

I haven't used the 3711 but in my experience (with the Danstar Belle Saison) there is definitely no need to add any sugars. It is an absolute beast and caution needs to be taken not to create bottle bombs as even when you think it must be finished it still finds more to eat.

 

[philmud]

Interesting, ive got a packet of 3711 ready for my saison which should occur in the next week or two.

Jamil says to use cane sugar to get the FG down but he also recommends the belgian strain (hbs only had the french).

Perhaps i can leave out the sugar to reduce the OG, make it a bit more sessionable than 7%!

Yeah, I'd ditch the sugar and mash low. 3711 is a beast and I've always had it finish below 1.005 without simple sugar.

Which yeast are you looking to use with this recipe?

Using Danstar Belle. I have found 3711 a bit more interesting but I'm after a comparably clean ferment with this recipe and I was pretty impressed with how voracious it is

 

[Matplat]

Sweetness... I'l ditch the sugar.

If it hits 1.005 it will still be over 6% even without the sugar!

 

[Dips Me Lid]

Can't go wrong with 3711, I've just brewed four saison's with it, all had an OG of 1.002 or lower, no sugars added.

Keen to hear how this saison turns out, the Mandarina hops sound interesting

 

[super_simian]

Belle Saison is the dog's bollocks for sure. Single digit FG every time, no simple sugar needed.

 

[pajs]

Bottled my Mandarina Ale yesterday. More bitter than I expected but a clear mandarin flavour with something more stonefruit too.

 

[philmud]

Bottled my Mandarina Ale yesterday. More bitter than I expected but a clear mandarin flavour with something more stonefruit too.

What late additions did you go with? As above I had 28g of mandarina at 5mins and the same at flame out. Way more late hops than I'd usually throw at a saison.

 

[philmud]

First glass of this beer, lovely and tart. Finished at 1.002, so bone dry. I fermented at 18C until it dropped to 1.010 then bumped up to 23C while it ripped through the tail end. Subsequently it's a pretty clean saison ferment. Distinctive yeast flavours, but nothing off the hook. While I love some of the surprises you get from saisons, a cleaner profile suits this beer.

Dry hopped with more mandarina (1g/L) for about 5 days while it cold crashed. First time using this hop & it's lovely but subtle. Mandarin flavours, yes, but also that grape-fruity bitter citrus.

Very early in the keg, but promising so far. Could maybe back the wheat off - a mate also brewed this recipe and he reckons it's like a hoegardden. I'm liking it wheaty though.