making your own Belgian dark candy for Xmas beers

[bootlegnjack]

How's it going,

I am brewing my first Xmas beers and the recipe I'm using needed Belgian dark candy sugar. When the local home brew store didn't have any I happened upon this online and made my own for a lot cheaper. Not sure how the quality stacks up because I've never brewed with the real deal before. Anyway here is the link for anyone else that might find it handy:
http://www.jaysbrewing.com/2012/01/18/belgian-candi-sugar-vs-table-sugar-for-beer/

 

[sp0rk]

Paging MHB...

 

[manticle]

The real deal is superb. If you can make anything like it at home, I'll buy you a cumquat farm in Seville.

 

[Online Brewing Supplies]

You are not going to match the real Belgian candi sugar but when you look at Belgian beers the buggers do things different anyways so do it Belgian style and make what you make !
Its going to be original and to me thats the best part of brewing
Nev

 

[MHB]

Paging MHB...

Too late too many beers CBA.
Mark

 

[Lemon]

I must admit I have been corrupted by MHB.
The liquid is nectar of the gods.
The soft dark, granular, turns my average brewing into a different class.
Not to mention that I made the kids toffee apples with what was left over. Fantastic.

I agree with Manticle, it is not possible to make Belgian style invert beet sugar at home. The real deal is expensive, but it is worth it.

Lemon

 

[Jaded and Bitter]

Were talking beet sugar molasses and treacle right?

Not the same, but an easy 'Aussie' substitution I use is CSR Dark Brown Sugar, CSR Treacle if your adventurous.

Veeerrry basically; sugars, heat, alkaline and fan = molasses, treacle etc.

 

[mje1980]

Just buy it. Seriously

 

[MHB]

Were talking beet sugar molasses and treacle right?

Not the same, but an easy 'Aussie' substitution I use is CSR Dark Brown Sugar, CSR Treacle if your adventurous.

Veeerrry basically; sugars, heat, alkaline and fan = molasses, treacle etc.

Actually most of that is factually wrong, Molasses is a by-product of sugar making, CSR Dark Brown Sugar is just sugar and molasses mixed together.
Golden Syrup are with Acid and sugar syrups, usually with a bit of other sugar refining by-product added in or protein to encourage Milliard reactions.

I'm not saying that Australian sugars and their derivative aren't useful in brewing, just that they aren't the same as Belgian Candi.
It would only take a couple of seconds to Google the subject before posting, (helps to avoid looking like an ignorant dick) obviously you or I can do what we like when we are brewing, but when sharing information try to get some of it right, if you don't know ask a question.
Mark

 

[black_labb]

I've made my own candy sugar/syrup and thought it was good. Then I tried the D2 dark candy syrup. That is definitely the stuff to use. Just taste it and it brings back memories of the beers you are trying to make.

Yeah MHB may have effected me as well.

 

[bootlegnjack]

Weeeelll I should have checked back on this thread before I went ahead and just made it. It tasted pretty good but probably not cumquat farm in seville good. I'll have to try the real deal.

 

[sp0rk]

I made a "Belgian" Golden Strong with 1.2kg of more or less the same stuff you linked to
It's a great beer on it's own merit (after 6 months aging), and I think it's going to fare pretty well when I enter it in some comps next year
BUT, it's no Belgian, it doesn't have the same really rich dark fruit and caramel flavours you get through in real Belgians
However the home made candy sugar worked very well in my Baltic Porter and I'd recommend it highly to anyone who's thinking about making one

 

[lael]

What technique did you use? I've gotten close. I have both d2 and d180 in supplies. I'll try to do a side by side tasting again this week (prob won't be till Fri) . From memory I had to make a few batches at different temps to get the depth of flavour I wanted.

As a start - use organic raw sugar and triple heat to 290F with DAP. I used Lime juice to invert prior to going for maillard reactions.

Ppl talk about using date sugar also.

If you are doing it right, you will taste all sorts of amazing flavours at various stages. Use a large plate and note what flavours when and then do a second batch and pull out portions at various flavours.

Of course... Its not hard to buy it

 

[mondestrunken]

Interestingly I just read the candi sugar thread that I think was cryptically mentioned above. (I'm planning a dubbel in the next few weeks...)

To summarise the previous thread (and I think we can all guess it from the above): your own home-made candi sugar is **** compared to the Belgian commercial stuff.

But I never did work out the conclusion... is it ingredients or process or both that make great candi sugar? Is it OK to substitute dextrose/brown sugar/something else?

 

[lael]

Mhb is totally correct about the sugar situation. Turbinado and muscavado are the unprocessed forms of sugar... However they are boutique over here (more common and cheaply found in usa) which means the cost and time benefit is not as compelling (that said candi syrup is also a lot cheaper over there... So... Go figure )

It is fun and interesting to try and make. It is worth getting the real thing to compare to. I would hazard a guess that the 'real' thing will be more fermentable.

 

[MHB]

Interestingly I just read the candi sugar thread that I think was cryptically mentioned above. (I'm planning a dubbel in the next few weeks...)

To summarise the previous thread (and I think we can all guess it from the above): your own home-made candi sugar is **** compared to the Belgian commercial stuff.

But I never did work out the conclusion... is it ingredients or process or both that make great candi sugar? Is it OK to substitute dextrose/brown sugar/something else?

My whole point is that it isn't Belgian Candi!
I have no problem with people making Invert of any colour and have no doubt that its a fine product in some beers.
If you made a mash, fermented and distilled it, put in it an oak barrel for 16 years and called it Scotch, I would likely strangle you.
It would be whiskey and I would have no problem with it being called that (I have a couple of bottles of Sullivans Cove and a some other Australian whiskeys in the cupboard - very enjoyable they are to) but they aren't Scotch. Calling it Scotch would be 1/ a lie 2/ misleading 3/ having your self on (wanking).
The same applies to Belgian Candi and Candy/Invert made at home, whether its good bad or indifferent it isn't Belgian Candi.

I believe based on experience that if you want to make a faithful and great tasting "homage" to a Belgian beer you use Belgian Malt, Belgian Candi (if called for) hops that suit the beer and an appropriate yeast.
If I were to try and make a Bohemian Pilsner, the malt hops and yeast would all be German...

We can all make what we like, that's why we home brew and its fun to experiment, I get all that.
You can substitute anything you like, just know this the beer wont taste as authentic, nor I suspect as good.
Mark

 

[manticle]

Belgian candy isn't a legal appellation (unlike scotch whisky, trappist beer, roquefort cheese, champagne) and to be pedantic AU whiskys made from barley malt in the style of scotch are whiskys not whiskeys (or are they both whiskies?).
That aside, I don't believe it's the country of origin that makes belgian candy syrup what it is - it's just that no method I've heard described telling anyone how to make it at home has come close. If it did, I'd be all over it but there is much more than burning some sugar and lemon juice or dap going on.

I'd be using some delicious czech ingredients in my bohemian pils.

 

[Markbeer]

if anyone wants to try making their own here are my tips. From dozens upon dozens made and thrown out. I have read all the websites etc.

Forget inverting. Just start with dextrose. This is more open to malliard reactions. Inverting needs an acid and this ends up with an acrid taste at high temps.

Use ammonia bicarbobate. This is both a source of alkali and nitrogen for the reactions to occur. It is a raising agent u can find in middle eastern stores. One teaspoon per 250g is about right.

Even at high temps u shouldnt get a burnt taste. Rather sweet dark fruit. It comes out black after less than 15 to 20 minutes.

Same as D2? no. but closer by far than the invert ones all the websites give direction on.

I think the idea of ammonia bicarbonate was from Brew Like a Monk.

 

[Markbeer]

Correction to above post.

Sorry 1/2 tsp of the ammonia bicarbonate to 250g.

This will change your water profile as well when you go to brew with the sugar.

I should add I didn't do it to be cheap, just curious and a bit of fun.

Belgians are the most expensive beer to buy, but aren't too dear to make. What I would spend on hops for IPA's and APA's, I am happy to spend on D2.

Mark

 

[Jaded and Bitter]

Actually most of that is factually wrong, Molasses is a by-product of sugar making, CSR Dark Brown Sugar is just sugar and molasses mixed together.
Golden Syrup are with Acid and sugar syrups, usually with a bit of other sugar refining by-product added in or protein to encourage Milliard reactions.

I'm not saying that Australian sugars and their derivative aren't useful in brewing, just that they aren't the same as Belgian Candi.
It would only take a couple of seconds to Google the subject before posting, (helps to avoid looking like an ignorant dick) obviously you or I can do what we like when we are brewing, but when sharing information try to get some of it right, if you don't know ask a question.
Mark

Ignorant dick? Yeah thanks...

Mark, what are your post-nomials?

I was pointing out we have readily available supermarket products which follow the similar chemical pathways as the Belgian products with their own Aussie signature. Not exactly the same but still nice, and much cheaper, excuse me for supporting Aussie made.

Rest assured MHB, the next time I build a Bridge I will either Google it or ask for your advice :lol:

 

[Adr_0]

You'll have to forgive Mark, he's had this discussion about 8 million times and is probably a little jaded.

He's also right.

I have had some success with baking clear syrups in the oven with a mix of citric and alanine (yet to try aspartic acid, leucine, and more importantly serine) but darker syrups are a different ballgame, mostly because of the stove staring and the fact thatoour main starting ingredient is refine cane sugar rather than unrefined beet.

There is a lot of info out there, but if in doubt have a taste of D2 or D90/D180...