losing gravity in the boil

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AzfromOz

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My science head says this is impossible, but my last two brews have seen me lose or gain no gravity during my boil.

Today I had a pre-boil gravity of 1.046 and a post boil gravity of 1.046 (75-minute boil with pre- and post-boil volumes hit (29l down to 20l). The previous brew saw pre-boil gravity of 1.034 and a post boil of 1.033. The obvious questions: yes, I triple checked my figures and am absolutely certain they reflect what I sampled. I take the pre-boil gravity reading from the kettle after sparging, and before doing so I stir the wort with the wine thief that I use to extract the sample. I then chill the sample to 20 degrees Celsius and take a hydrometer reading. Post-boil I wait until I transfer the wort at pitching temp into the hydrometer and again take a hydrometer reading (from the fermenter) after stirring. The hydrometer is out by about 1 point from water calibration, but that shouldn't be an issue here. I always do temperature corrections on my hydrometer readings.
I have begun using a hop spider, and there's a fair bit of crap left in it when I end the boil. Could that be taking sugars away?

I leave about a litre of crud in the bottom of the kettle when transferring to the fermenter. Could that be ultra sugary and preventing those sugars from hitting the fermenter?

Finally, I suppose that by stirring with the wine thief I could be taking most of the sample from unstirred wort that has gone into the wine-thief while stirring, but surely the sugar is evenly in solution after 75 minutes of boiling and 20 of cooling? Also, the error should cancel out by giving me similarly lower than reality pre-boil and post-boil readings (that is, they should both be lower than reality if all I'm getting is unstirred wort), but still not the same reading both times.

Interestingly, I missed my Beersmith-calculated post-boil gravity by 6 points but hit the published post-boil gravity (I was following a recipe from the Jan/Feb 2018 BYO). Probably a question for another day as to why Beersmith's calculations were so far out!

Any advice appreciated!

Cheers

Az
 
When you use your Wine Thief to collect your pre-boil sample, are you taking it from the top or bottom of the kettle? I'm guessing you're taking it from the bottom.. and if you compared it to a sample from the top, there'd be a big difference. I don't think stirring with a Wine Thief is doing the job properly.
 
I would say by default the sample is coming from the bottom of the wort simply due to the fact I'm sticking a big wine thief in there, but shouldn't that cancel itself out when I'm taking the pre- and post-boil samples from a similar depth?

Cheers
 
If you have boiled off 9 litres of liquor it really is impossible to not have any change in gravity, all your sugar would be dissolved into the wort so no you aren't losing sugar that way.(hop spider)
What I do for the pre boil gravity is give it a good stir remove 3 liters of wort (I have a helix) tip that back in and take the sample, my post boil I wait until I am about to pitch the yeast and have shaken the hell out of it.
 
If you have boiled off 9 litres of liquor it really is impossible to not have any change in gravity, all your sugar would be dissolved into the wort so no you aren't losing sugar that way.(hop spider)
What I do for the pre boil gravity is give it a good stir remove 3 liters of wort (I have a helix) tip that back in and take the sample, my post boil I wait until I am about to pitch the yeast and have shaken the hell out of it.

Yeah, I can only assume it's not been stirred enough, which I never would've thought at the time given the amount of stirring I actually do.

Cheers
 
Your "Scientific Head" is right, you are experiencing a mismeasurement, the only thing to do is to find out where/how.
Odds on its your preboil measurement, as you said after the boil it should be pretty thoroughly mixed, so in all likelihood its going to be the earlier measurement that is wrong.
Mark
 
Your "Scientific Head" is right, you are experiencing a mismeasurement, the only thing to do is to find out where/how.
Odds on its your preboil measurement, as you said after the boil it should be pretty thoroughly mixed, so in all likelihood its going to be the earlier measurement that is wrong.
Mark

Yeah, that seems the only logical conclusion!

Cheers
 
Wait until it's boiling before you take your pre boil reading. You will probably find you aren't getting the efficiency you think you are getting or what you have set in beersmith. Beersmith is accurate if you have your profile set up properly, seeing that your numbers aren't matching up, i would start taking notes and adjusting it.
 
Wait until it's boiling before you take your pre boil reading. You will probably find you aren't getting the efficiency you think you are getting or what you have set in beersmith. Beersmith is accurate if you have your profile set up properly, seeing that your numbers aren't matching up, i would start taking notes and adjusting it.

I actually update my efficiency after each brew based on what Beersmith tells me was that batch's efficiency. I keep a rolling average to ensure I'm right in the efficiency ballpark for my system. Currently at 72.9%.

Cheers
 

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