Looking for advice/gear: AG rig in Brisbane

[broseo]

Hey Homebrewers,

I'm a student and very new to the site (and to brewing in general) and am working on compiling my first all grain rig. I'm looking at a two-tier 3V keg system with one pump and a heap of camlocks/ss fittings (thinking of ordering from 'merica atm). Planning to swap lines around during the brew to save buying two pumps, and to stop my brain melting with too many plans/schematics.

I've found stacks of resources and sites selling ss fittings/camlocks etc. but haven't had much luck on a cheap way to source a false bottom for the MT, an immersion coil, and a good pump of some sort. Was looking at chuggers and match 809s... Why doesn't anyone make an equivalent of the little brown pump in stainless..?

Does anyone have any ideas for buying these in Brisi, or even have gear you would cheaply offload?

I've sort of semi-started documenting my process, but so far the longest time-sync has been spending a couple of weeks straight on the internet rummaging through forums, google and vendors. If I get something reasonable to show, I'll probably post it here somewhere

 

[broseo]

Any opinions for using a mesh strainer as a false bottom..?


http://www.kitchenwaredirect.com.au/Metaltex-Double-Mesh-Skimmer-20cm

 

[luggy]

Looks like you're spending up on everything else, you can buy a false bottom for fifty bucks

 

[broseo]

Okay guys,

I'm doing a diagram with parts layout/list, but here's an idea for the process and how I want to setup the rig.

What do you think?

 

[Beertard]

Pictures **** YER

 

[Burt de Ernie]

What maximum size batches you are planning to pump out?

 

[Beertard]

You have the idea right, your recirculation and fly sparge diagram incorrect, you'll need to run the recirculating wort down through the grain to act as a filter and you'll need a fly sparge device on top of your grain again to run the wort through the grain to wash off any sugars. Could be just dodgy drawing though, what are your plans there?

 

[broseo]

Well, I was planning on using the piece of mounted silicon pipe inside the mash tun as the reticulation/sparge outlet, based on the SABCO method.

I've read that it works for sparging, would it be okay for reticulation too?

 

[broseo]

Looks like you're spending up on everything else, you can buy a false bottom for fifty bucks

You're totally right Luggy, just buying one (new or second hand) seems better haha- the original ones I saw were like $100 but since then I've found some cheaper ones.

What maximum size batches you are planning to pump out?

Well I'm looking at using two 50L Kegs for the HLT and the MT, and then buying one of these 88L stock pots for the boiler:

http://www.wayfair.com.au/Lins-Homewares-Deep-Stock-Pot-S216-LINS1275.html?refid=GETAU408-LINS1275_11519646&PiID%5B%5D=11519646

That way I'll have enough room for single/double batches (maybe triple?) and if I ever want to upgrade in size, I could buy some of the 150L pots listed there. Then I could use the 88L boiler as a HLT (especially because it would have the same fittings/holes) for a bigger Mash/Boiler setup, while keeping the the 50L kegs for use as a pilot system.

I've been thinking about this a lot haha

 

[Burt de Ernie]

Well I'm looking at using two 50L Kegs for the HLT and the MT, and then buying one of these 88L stock pots for the boiler:

=11519646]http://www.wayfair.com.au/Lins-Homewares-Deep-Stock-Pot-S216-LINS1275.html?refid=GETAU408-LINS1275_11519646&PiID[]=11519646

I had two of those wayfair pots which did the job but my honest opinion is they are definitely "POVO" pots. I now have a boil pot which I got from Handy Imports on Ebay which fantastic quality. The POVO pots are now at the tip!

%5Burl=http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/NEW-COMMERCIAL-71L-STAINLESS-STEEL-STOCK-POT-SAUCEPAN-/350692383380?pt=AU_Business_Industrial_Restaurant_Catering_Equipment&hash=item51a6e51a94][URL="http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/NEW-COMMERCIAL-71L-STAINLESS-STEEL-STOCK-POT-SAUCEPAN-/350692383380?pt=AU_Business_Industrial_Restaurant_Catering_Equipment&hash=item51a6e51a94"]http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/NEW-COMMERCIAL-71L-STAINLESS-STEEL-STOCK-POT-SAUCEPAN-/350692383380?pt=AU_Business_Industrial_Restaurant_Catering_Equipment&hash=item51a6e51a94

 

[GuyQLD]

Burt de Ernie, on 22 Jun 2014 - 10:30 PM, said:

I had two of those wayfair pots which did the job but my honest opinion is they are definitely "POVO" pots.

I was thinking about picking up a couple for my build, what exactly was wrong with them? Thin steel? Bad welds? Just looking for some feedback before I throw some cash at it. I've heard the handy imports ones are pretty awful so if that's an improvement on the wayfair ones... perhaps I need to reconsider.

 

[broseo]

+1 to that- what were the issues? I guess they sound too good to be true.

I think I might have to go for them anyway to start with though, just because they're half the price; maybe I can find something better!


Also, here's my components list, with a few questions! I've basically highlighted anything in red that I'm unsure of haha. One of my main concerns is the temperature control for the mash, as per image.

(I'll make a price list of everything soon as well)

 

[Beertard]

Good one Burt de Ernie, I was about to get a couple of their smaller pots, might try these instead. http://www.fischerequip.com.au/cookware-c7/

I doubt it's safe to put two 2200w elements into a double adaptor, let alone the same power point?

 

[TheWiggman]

On the phone so I'll do my best to remember the pic.
1. Place your thermowell/temp pickup on the OUTLET of your HERMS coil, not at the bottom of the mash tun.
2. Don't use a 115V anything - stick to 240V, plenty of good stuff available locally especially from some of the site sponsors.
3. The second pickup from the kettle is not needed. Just use your suction pickup from the base of the kettle.
4. The kettle whirlpool return should be low, not high. Keeping it low will get you a nice whirlpool cone happening.
5. Yes, you can stick a compression fitting straight through like a bulkhead. Just add a nut and silicone washer and you can screw a female fitting in from the other side.

 

[broseo]

Good one Burt de Ernie, I was about to get a couple of their smaller pots, might try these instead. http://www.fischerequip.com.au/cookware-c7/

I doubt it's safe to put two 2200w elements into a double adaptor, let alone the same power point?

You're probably right man! I'm a bit blasé about them because they sit on the kitchen bench haha. We usually have a sandwich iron/kettle/toaster/blender on the same powerboard, but they're not usually run at the same time or for very long..... We'll probably set the house on fire someday

On the phone so I'll do my best to remember the pic.
1. Place your thermowell/temp pickup on the OUTLET of your HERMS coil, not at the bottom of the mash tun.
2. Don't use a 115V anything - stick to 240V, plenty of good stuff available locally especially from some of the site sponsors.
3. The second pickup from the kettle is not needed. Just use your suction pickup from the base of the kettle.
4. The kettle whirlpool return should be low, not high. Keeping it low will get you a nice whirlpool cone happening.
5. Yes, you can stick a compression fitting straight through like a bulkhead. Just add a nut and silicone washer and you can screw a female fitting in from the other side.

Thanks Wiggman! Some questions for your questions; they're a bit long haha.

1. I put it at the outlet at the bottom because that would be the coldest point, but I just did some more reading and it looks like I would get overheating on top (at HERMS outlet), which totally makes sense.
Since I was planning on having a thermometer in the mash anyway, as per your suggestion, I would put the temp-pickup at 'number 7' (herms outlet) to monitor temperature of ingoing water, and then keep an eye on the mash thermometer.
Otherwise, would it be better to have the probe at the mash thermowell?

I'm also planning on insulating the MT and maybe the other pots as well.

2. Fair call! I suggested it because I'm planning on ordering pretty much everything from America and shipping to my uncle there, who owns a post office and will pass it on for free (hell yeah). Everything from 'Merica is like 1/2 the price, which is making this project doable for me haha.

3. The reason I had two pickups at the kettle top was to make sure suction at the bottom wouldn't stuff up the whirlpool action. Based off the picture below, my understanding is that by creating a whirlpool close to the top of the wort and parallel with the surface, sediment is pushed first outwards, then down the sides of the kettle and into the middle, forming a central trub cone. I thought that having suction at the bottom might cause a 'spiral flow' down the vessel instead of the 'parallel to surface' flow.
Is that not a problem? I guess it might not matter in practice :lol:

4. This links into the above question; I've seen in other articles that it says to keep the outlet just below the wort level (maybe an inch or two) and parallel to the surface. I was planning on mounting the pipe a bit higher in case I want to do large batches, then I could bend it to suit the wort boil height.
Do you usually place it lower than this?

5. Awesome!

 

[TheWiggman]

1. This is a topic that's been debated at length on the HERMS thread. It's a bit of a challenge to read through but the crux of it is you want to monitor the hottest liquid temp (based on my reading and interpretation). If you monitor the grain bed you'll get temp overshoot somewhere in the MT which could cause dramas.
If you look at other designs everyone else does it this way, with some monitoring from a few other spots for entertainment/investigative value. I tend to side with the majority with these sorts of matters.

3. Sucking from higher isn't a problem, but it'll save you cash and time on an extra fitting.

4. Because of the effect of boundary layers, viscosity will slow down the flow at the very outer of the vessel. The higher you have your wort return, the lower the RPM of the fluid at the bottom. Both methods will work but from what I've seen having it lower (bottom third of liquid height) appears to work better.

 

[broseo]

Sweet!

Thanks for the great feedback and explanations

I'll make the probe adjustments, use the bottom tap as suction, and mount the wort return lower.

I'll probably grab a couple of spare parts too so if I decide to change anything there's some wriggle room.

 

[broseo]

Also,

With thermometers, I've decided I might as well get some PID stuff. Doing an ebay search, they all look pretty puck the same, just a difference in price, eg;

http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/AC-Digital-PID-Temperature-controller-MAX-25A-SSR-K-thermocouple-Sensor-/231246737230?pt=AU_B_I_Electrical_Test_Equipment&hash=item35d7612f4e&_uhb=1
Vs
http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/Profession-PID-Digital-Temperature-Controller-D1S-VR-220-K-Sensor-25DA-SSR-/321346805067?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_15&var&hash=item4ad1c31d4b&_uhb=1

And what's the difference between those and these..?
http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/Digital-PID-Temperature-Controller-200-240V-Thermocouple-LCD-Display-with-Sensor-/161259985554?pt=AU_B_I_Electrical_Test_Equipment&hash=item258bd81a92&_uhb=1

I would like to make this as basic as possible, with;

- A temperature reading on each vessel.
- A temperature reading from my MT controlling the HLT heating elements.

I'm a bit confused on what parts I need to buy. I know I need to get some outlets to wire into the controller, a relay device for switching, and some other things...

 

[Parks]

broseo - what side of town are you?

I have a herms setup I'd be more than happy to show you in practice to give you ideas of what not to do

 

[broseo]

broseo - what side of town are you?

I have a herms setup I'd be more than happy to show you in practice to give you ideas of what not to do

I'm in Highgate Hill

That would be awesome!

 

[Parks]

PM sent.

 

[TheWiggman]

Check out 4:40 in this video. Shows a working method with a pickup and return. The whole video's pretty good actually, so SHINY.
http://youtu.be/RtRK8vQVcfM

 

[Burt de Ernie]

I was thinking about picking up a couple for my build, what exactly was wrong with them? Thin steel? Bad welds? Just looking for some feedback before I throw some cash at it. I've heard the handy imports ones are pretty awful so if that's an improvement on the wayfair ones... perhaps I need to reconsider.

I`m no expert on stainless steel pots but the first thing I noticed between the two was the weight. The 70 litre handy import (HI) pot weighed a lot more than the 150 litre Wayfair (I don't know the exact numbers because I didn't weigh them).

The HI pot also has a sandwich base but there are for and against arguments to both bases.

The Wayfair pot came with a large ding in the corner of the base which I couldn't imagine the HI pot getting too easily.

I cant comment on the welds of either pot because I didn't inspect either of them too closely for imperfections however nothing stood out.

In general the HI seems like it would have a lot greater life expectancy however both pot will get the job done. My advice is if you have the coin then go for a better quality pot.

 

[broseo]

Check out 4:40 in this video. Shows a working method with a pickup and return. The whole video's pretty good actually, so SHINY.
http://youtu.be/RtRK8vQVcfM

Awesome Video! I just keep learning more haha, getting itchy to get my hands on something instead of designing though- hoping to order parts this weekend

 

[lael]

I was wondering with this video. Does his combination of switches mean that you can't do multiple batches at the same time? I would think the main advantage of 3v is mashing a second time while boiling etc.

 

[Parks]

Possibly lael. My setup the boil is separated from the herms/mash so that once I have finished fly sparging I can then start mashing batch no.2 if I so pleased.

You may find his is the same, possibly...