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PostModern

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I'm a lover of the Dark Belgian Strong Ale (dubbel?) and plan to brew a nice strong malty complex ale.

Temperatures are getting warmer so it seems the right time to ferment a little warm and get some nice estery complexity going. I've been fiddling in ProMash with my current extract and grain stock and have come up with this:

Light DME 2Kg
Munich Malt 1Kg
Pale Ale Malt 1Kg
Candi Sugar .5Kg
CaraMunich III (80EBC??) .25Kg
Cara Aroma .1Kg
Crystal (80) .25Kg
Brown Sugar .15Kg
Roasted Barley .07Kg

Northern Brewer 20g 60 mins
Hallertauer 15g 30 mins
Tettnanger 15g 5 mins

WLP500 Trappist Ale Yeast

est OG 1.080 for 20 litres

Promash gives me 18.9 SRM and 33.7 IBU's

I'm aiming for something in the neighbourhood of Chimay Bleu, Gulden Draak, Hahn Vintage Ale type stuff.

Should I consider spices, orange rind etc?
 

Snow

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That sounds like a good recipe, though I would replace the pale ale malt with Pilsener malt (preferably Belgian or German). Also, ditch the brown sugar and just add more candy sugar and make it amber to dark candy sugar for that lovely caramel flavour. I wouldn't add any spices. Just make this version and see if it is missing anything before you play with spices, as they can seriously put a brew out of balance if you don't know what you're doing.

Cheers - Steve
 

Doc

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Just cruising through HBD this morning and someone else has asked about Gulden Draak. There are a few replies so I will paste them here (if I just link to it the link will be gone at the end of the month.


By Mike A. (128.173.139.227) on Friday, October 31, 2003 - 09:58 pm: Edit


A search of the RCB archives yielded this recipe.

Gulden Draak

13lb Belgian 2-row Pilsner matl
4lb Belgian 2-row pale malt
1lb German wheat malt
14oz 65L German crystal malt
4oz Belgian aromatic malt
3oz Belgian Cara-Munich malt
2oz Belgian Biscuit malt

1/2lb Belgian clear candi sugar
1oz Brewers Gold (bittering)
1/4oz Styrian Goldings (flavor)
1tsp Irish moss

Mash at 150F for 90 minutes.
Add bittering hops and Candi sugar at beginning of boil
Boil for 90 minutes
Add flavor hops and irish moss for last 15 minutes of the boil
OG-1.104 - 1.109
FG 1.020 - 1.026
26IBU 21SRM
10.5%AV - Yields 5 gallons

=============================================================================

By PalerThanAle (65.168.73.62) on Wednesday, November 05, 2003 - 02:34 pm: Edit


Clone Brews has it:

Yield: 5 gallons (18.9 L)
Final gravity: 1.020-1.026 SRM 21
Original gravity: 1.104-1.109
IBU 26 10.5% alcohol by volume
Crush and steep in gallon (1.9 L) 150F (65.5C) water for 20 minutes
14 oz. (.4 kg) 65L German crystal malt
4 oz. (113 g) Belgian aromatic malt
3 oz. (85 g) Belgian Cara-Munich malt
2 oz. (57 g) Belgian biscuit malt
Strain the grain water into your brew pot. Sparge the grains with gallon (1.9 L) water at 150F (65.5C). Add water to the brew pot for 1.5 gallons (5.7 L) total volume. Bring the water to a boil, remove the pot from the stove, and add:

11 lb. (5 kg) M&F extra-light DME
1 lb. (.45 kg) M&F wheat DME (55% wheat, 45% barley)
lb. (.23 kg) Belgian clear candi sugar
1 oz. (28 g) Brewers Gold @ 9.0% AA (9 HBU)
(bittering hop)

Add water until total volume in the brew pot is 3.5 gallons (13 L). Boil for 45 minutes then add:

oz. (7 g) Styrian Goldings (flavor hop)
1 tsp. (5 ml) Irish moss

Boil for 15 minutes, remove pot from the stove, and cool for 15 minutes. Strain the cooled wort into the primary fermenter and add cold water to obtain 5 gallons (18.9 L). When the wort temperature is under 80F (26.6C), pitch your yeast.

1st choice: Wyeast's 1388 Belgian strong ale yeast
(Ferment at 70-73F [21-23C])
2nd choice: Wyeast's 3787 Trappist high gravity yeast
(Ferment at 70-73F [21-23C])

Ferment in the primary fermenter 5-7 days or until fermentation slows, then siphon into the secondary fermenter. Bottle when fermentation is complete with:

1 cup (300 ml) M&F extra-light DME

PTA

================================================================================


By Bill Pierce (24.141.63.119) on Wednesday, November 05, 2003 - 03:28 pm: Edit


I should have checked my copy of Clone Brews. Sure enough, there's a Gulden Draak recipe. It's a big beer (should warm Walt's heart--and liver) with a complex grain bill and not an ounce of Special B. Here are the basics:

O.G. 1.108
F.G. 1.023

67 percent Belgian pilsner malt
20.5 percent Belgian pale malt
5 percent malted wheat
4.5 percent German crystal malt (65L)
1.25 percent Belgian aromatic malt
1 percent Belgian caramunich malt
0.75 percent Belgian biscuit malt
0.5 lbs. Belgian candi sugar per 5 gallons

Bitter to 26 IBUs with Brewers Gold and add 0.25 oz. Styrian Goldings per 5 gallons for the last 15 minutes of the boil.

Ferment with Wyeast 1388 or Wyeast 3787 at 72 F.


Enjoy,
Doc
 

PostModern

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Thanks gents. Looking at it now, I think I will use darker candy sugar and reduce the amount of roasted barley significantly. Maybe 30g instead of 70g. I don't have any Pilsener malt atm, but do have Pale Ale, which is why I was using it. Will definately get some for Version 1.1

What flavours does biscuit malt contribute?
 

wee stu

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PM - ProMash? Is this freeware or not?

What is it, where do you get it?
 

Doc

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wee stu,

PM here generally means Partial Mash.

For Promash check the links section. You can download a trial version from their website. Well worth the few dollars it costs if you start messing with grains as a majority of your brew.

Beers,
Doc
 

PostModern

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Doc,
I think wee stu was asking me (PostModern abreviated to "PM") what ProMash was as I mentioned I'd used it in my first post up there ^^.

So many PM's :) Private Message, Partial Mash, Pro Mash, PostModern....

Anyway, mostly I get my nick abbreviated to "PoMo", like the way the latte set talka about PostModern art - "My goodness, Imogen, that piece over there is just so PoMo".
 

Doc

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.....and don't forget pm (post meridian). :D

Beers,
Doc
 

Choos

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Where in Australia can a person get Belgian Candi sugar?
 

Trough Lolly

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PostModern said:
Northern Brewer 20g 60 mins
Hallertauer 15g 30 mins
Tettnanger 15g 5 mins

WLP500 Trappist Ale Yeast

est OG 1.080 for 20 litres

Promash gives me 18.9 SRM and 33.7 IBU's
PoMo,

How do you achieve the Promash determined 33.7 IBU's of bitterness?

Are you going to do a 20 L boil or are the hops measured out for a smaller boil?

I know how to calculate IBU's etc, but always wonder what is the easiest way to achieve the desired bitterness when you only do, say, a 6L boil for a 20L batch? Add more hops? Boil for longer? Have less malt in the boil to raise the extraction efficiency of the hops? :blink:

What's the easy solution that I haven't thought of yet? :(

Cheers,

TL
 

Trev

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Choos,

I guess you can buy Candi Sugar, but why not make it yourself. You only need sugar, citric acid and a decent thermometer. There's a good description here, at the Craftbrewers site.

I got myself a candy thermometer and made some up recently. It turned out great, well at least the candi sugar did. The Belgium Ale I was trying to make wasn't a great success, although I'll wait another few months and sample another bottle.

Trev
 

PostModern

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Trough Lolly said:
PoMo,

How do you achieve the Promash determined 33.7 IBU's of bitterness?

Are you going to do a 20 L boil or are the hops measured out for a smaller boil?

I know how to calculate IBU's etc, but always wonder what is the easiest way to achieve the desired bitterness when you only do, say, a 6L boil for a 20L batch? Add more hops? Boil for longer? Have less malt in the boil to raise the extraction efficiency of the hops? :blink:

What's the easy solution that I haven't thought of yet? :(

Cheers,

TL
I do small high gravity boils (6-8 litres), so I don't get the best AA extraction. I've notced that ProMash's AA values differ from what ESB write on the hop packets, so be sure to adjust it for the actual AA of your hops.

I also do some of the things you mention, such as adding the extracts at the end of the boil to improved AA extraction, and sometimes pop in an extra 5-10% of pellets. So far, so good :) I haven't started on the Belgian brews yet. I've been using the cooler weather to pump out a few beers on K-97 and S-04. The Trappist yeast will ferment a bit warmer and produce those nice characteristic esters.

Choos, I'm going to make my own Candi sugar, like Trev.
 
J

Jovial_Monk

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According to the Belgian Beer Style Belgian Ale book (By Pierre Rajotte) Belgian Dubbels contain little crystal and no darker malts

use a longer boil or even a bare simmer overnight with the lid on the brewpot to get the smooth taste and dark color you want



Jovial Monk
 

PostModern

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Cheers, JM. I might try to get most of the colour by caramelising the candi sugar. Good point about the crystal and roasted malts. I guess I was cheating a bit there, trying to boost the SRM with roasted barley and dark crystal. :)

Caramel malts like Caramunich and CaraAroma should be within style tho? Or is that what you mean by "dark malts"?
 
J

Jovial_Monk

Guest
Someone has mixed up invert sugar and kandi sugar. Anyway, citric acid only converts 2% of the sugar, real invert is made with sulphuric acid. Me? i would rather buy Tate and Lyle Golden Syrup which IS invert sugar. I also use honey rather than sugar and for a big beer, otherwise all-malt, I will cheerfully add a kilo table sugar (but ONLY for a big beer!!!)

You can indeed make kandi sugar, seems like a lot of work to me :)


And yes, caramunich like crystal should be used in very small amounts, 50g or so. Note the first two recipes Doc posted, no cara- malts at all.

If you are doing small, concentrated boils, boil your hops seperately in plain water. The Burton IPA brewers used this trick, so you have precedent, and excellent hop utilisation. Otherwise, dissolve and boil your dried extract for all but the last 5 minutes of your boil time, bail out 2L into a seperate smaller pan, add your liquid extract, sugar etc, stir to dissolve, slowly add back to your main boil
 

PostModern

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I'm thinking laterally here... you know those lolly shops that hand-make fancy candies? I wonder if they might be persuaded to make a batch of say 5Kgs of dark candi sugar for a special price? I might phone a few places and see what they would do for me... Would have to be cheaper than lollies as they wouldn't have to go thru all the stretching and chopping etc... just make the stuff and put it in 500g baggies.
 

kook

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I'm sure theres a few HBS's who'd stock it if they produced it for them.
 

Snow

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So, JM, what is your definition of Belgian Candi Sugar? I have read in several sources that it is just white sugar boiled with citric acid for a certain amount of time at a certain temp.

- Snow.
 

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