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Last Minute Sparge And Beersmith Q (again)

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maldridge

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Hey I've got one more question, I hope somebody sees this in time! I'm brewing tomrrow. Putting together the standard 'Wit' beer recipe on Beersmith. Trying to put together a 25L batch but I'm having issues.

I just went through my recipe on beersmith and I realised with this particular recipe the mash steps are:

Mash In - Add 21.29 L of water at 73.6. 60 min mash at 67.8
Fly sparge with 27.92 L of water at 75.6

In my previous brew I did a mash out.

My question is do I drain the mash tun after the hour mash, before I fly sparge? Or is fly sparging something you do at the end of the mash, whilst the wort is still in the tun??

I'm also having serious issues with my estimated and measured volumes. Beersmith is messing with me. My last AG brew only needed a total of 40.16 L of water, ending up with a boil volume of 34.84. This time however it reckons I need 50 L of water! Is this real? IT still says I'll end up with a boil volume of 37.95 L. How is that possible? Will I lose 11L when I sparge??

Man I've confused myself way too much now.

Thanks in advance, hopefully somebody can set me straight!
 

maldridge

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I actually took a screen shot.

What's confusing me is the BATCH SIZE is set to 25L. Perfect. The MEASURED BATCH SIZE is 37.85? What's the deal?

When I click on the 'mash' tab the MEASURED PRE-BOIL volume is 47.59 L (but estimated is 37.95).

original1.jpg
 

Adam Howard

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Fly sparging is running the sparge water in to the top of the mash as you drain to the kettle. Ideally you match the speed of the wort into the kettle with the water in to the top of the mash to slowly rinse out the sugars.

You lose water to the grain. Using more grain for the same size batch will require more water to get the required pre-boil volume as the grain bed will hold more water once sparging is over. The times when I do my volumes exactly as Beersmith says are the times I hit all my numbers and get a perfect batch size at the end of the boil. Trust it.

Edit: 'Measured' is the number you plug in as you brew. Forget what it is now. When you do your brewday you plug in all the numbers you measure at the time, depending on how close your measured is to your predicted is how close you are on your efficiencies. If there's a prediction that you will end up with 25L of 1.050 wort but you end up with a measured 26L at 1.050 then your measured efficiency is higher and you can adjust for your next recipe. Same thing goes if you get the correct 25L in the end but a higher gravity than expected.
 

kelbygreen

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fly sparging is sparging while you are extracting the wort. batch sparging is draining the mash tun then dumping the sparge water in then taking it out.

Think your really confused here. So will go into detail. You want about 1-2 inches of wort above the grain bed and then you add the water in the same rate it is getting drawn out so there will be 1 inch of liquid above your grain bed untill you add all your water or you reach 1.010 on the extraction side.

for your volumes are you using your custom setup or just randomly selecting ones from the list?? you have to set up the volumes to your system. I cant go into how you do it as each system is different but if you where close last time use the same equipment profile.

Unless your using 11kg more grain you have done something wrong
 

maldridge

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I see. I realise what fly sparging is now. Weather or not this is going to work for me is something else...

Hmm I might need to drain into another bucket or fermenter, as I usually gravity feed out of the kettle direct into the mash tun. Man fly sparging is going to be a right PITA for me. I don't have 3 different heights to drain the sparge water from the kettle to the mash-tun, whilst draining the mashtun into another vessell.....

Oh and I've setup my own custom profile, to match my 2x 70L vessels.

My last batch I got Dr Smurto to actually put it all together for me in beersmith to match my equipment and he emailed me the print out.....didn't think it'd be this difficult making it myself.
 

kelbygreen

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the measured batch size like the measured FG is calculated when you put your figures into the mash field as you go it will change that. All measured things will be WAY! off what you expect, These fields are for YOU! to fill in as the brew goes along and it will calculate your true efficiency
 

kelbygreen

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I use a 2lt jug for fly sparging scoop it out of the HLT and slowly pour into the MT while it pumps into the kettle. It sounds a pain but isnt really 5-10mins and its over with
 

maldridge

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Unfortunately I don't have 3 vessels. Only 2x pots, one for kettle, one for mash. I just use a fermenter for times when I need to transfer into something else in between. I think I'll just stick to the original recipe, not change anything and just see what happens. I really hope this magically works out.
 

kelbygreen

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without a mash out it will do stuff all. I done 2 brews without a mash out and the mash just floats and wont settle, do a mash out it settles and get heaps clearer wort into the boiler. I would up the sparge to like 78deg to as your not mashing out so keep it higher it will settle while you sparge but even if you recirculate it will not be as clear from my findings.

you could run the wort into a fermenter or cube and use the boiler as the HLT then when its empty put the fermenter into the boiler and start to heat for the boil and keep collecting in fermenter and top it up

mash out and sparge is very hard with a 2V I have 3v and my kettle heats the mash out and the HLT the sparge so there is no down time the mash out goes in and the sparge is a few mins from temp recuirc for 10 mins then start sparging while it pumps into the boiler
 

maldridge

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So I think everything went fine yesterday, managed to get my fly sparging down - still much prefer batch spare tbh.

Anyway, Pre-boil my numbers were on track, I ended up with about 37L (which is what beersmith had calculated), however postboil my numbers were off...I ended up with about 27L in the fermenter - aiming for a 25L batch (and there was still a bit left in the kettle). Does this mean my efficiency is better. I have a feeling I didn't lose 9L to boil off like somebody had told me who also had a 70l kettle...

What do you think this will do to my final numbers? Going to take a gravity reading today now the temp is correct
 

NewtownClown

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You need to adjust your boil off amount and/or your losses to trub, in your equipment profile.

If you have a greater volume AND you have hit your post boil OG, then your efficiency has improved.

I have recently adopted this sparge method and my brewday time has shortened and efficiency improved.
 

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