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Lagering

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How do you lager your lager?

  • Rack to secondary, lager for less than 4-weeks

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • Rack to secondary, lager for 4-weeks or more

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • Keg, lager for less than 4-weeks

    Votes: 1 100.0%
  • Keg, lager for 4-weeks or more

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • Lager on the yeast cake for less than 4-weeks

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • Lager on the yeast cake for 4-weeks or more

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • Drink it straight out of the fermenter

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • Other

    Votes: 0 0.0%

  • Total voters
    1

Spiesy

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Hey everyone... got my first ever AG lager on the go. Been fermenting for 7-days at 11-degrees, using Wyeast Budvar - just wondering what the next stage should be... keen to hear what the group consensus is.

I have not mentioned d-rest in the poll, as I'm assuming that's a given, where required.

Also, the poll will be slightly skewed if you don't keg... I keg, and I guess I'm wondering am I better off lagering in an oxygen free keg if fermentation has completed, or transferring to a oxygen-present secondary if fermentation isn't quite complete...

Appreciate your input.
 

Nick JD

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I taste in the fermenter when making Boh Pils to see how diacetyly it is - and then decide on whether to rest or not, as the style suits a bit of diacetyl (and if you're like me, I like it a lot - and wonder why it's a "fault" in so many styles).

Saaz (and tett) and diacetyl go well together, but I find if I've used Hallertau, the florally herbal tastes can jar against the diacetyl and me no likey that as much. In short - a d-rest is not always essential in a lager.

In my "quick lagers" secondary is only for a week or less, just to clear the beer. Gelatine and polyclar 2 days each ... transfer to keg and force carb. If you've got a fridge you can leave at -1C for 2 months then you're lucky ... my lagering fridge is also my fermenting fridge, so lagering is the perfect way to run myself out of beer.
 

Phoney

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I've been wondering about this too.

Is there any difference between transferring to secondary and storing at 2C for 4 weeks, then kegging - or - kegging, carbonating, stick it in the kegerator & just refrain from drinking it for 4 weeks?

Because I've done the latter with a cider and I didnt think it was any better after 4, 6 or 8 weeks than it was the day I kegged it, which made me wonder what the benefit of lagering actually is.
 

Spiesy

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phoneyhuh said:
I've been wondering about this too.

Is there any difference between transferring to secondary and storing at 2C for 4 weeks, then kegging - or - kegging, carbonating, stick it in the kegerator & just refrain from drinking it for 4 weeks?

Because I've done the latter with a cider and I didnt think it was any better after 4, 6 or 8 weeks than it was the day I kegged it, which made me wonder what the benefit of lagering actually is.
My understanding* is that the lagering process enables compounds such as sulphur, to dissipate as well as the clarity improve through yeast and trub dropping out. Is there much sulphur in a cider? Is it fermented with lager yeast at lager temps?
And I wonder about the effectiveness on improved clarity if the lagering is done in the keg... with the same yeast, trub and sedimentary particles remaining in the same vessel.

*is basic, and I am seeking to improve this
 

Phoney

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Not sure about sulphur in cider nor lager to be honest, I ferment cider with cider yeast @ 15C.

So long as the dip tube is positioned right in the centre at the bottom of the keg, I've found lagering for 4 weeks just makes the first glass cloudy and the rest crystal clear. I dont see the point of stuffing around with a second vessel if that's all it saves me from.

Would be interested to hear some other POV's.... Thirstyboy? Fourstar?
 

labels

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Spiesy said:
anyone else?
Yes me.
The lagering process is where the beer loses it's harshness.

There are different takes on this so others may say I'm right, others say I'm wrong.

Lagering is the process after the yeast has done it's job such as clean up diacetyl, the beer has had sufficient time to lose acetaldehyde - that green apple taste and so on.

The yeast is not really working in lagering - I lager at -1C so there is no yeast activity going on there but, unwanted protiens drop out. These don't so much affect the flavour but do affect clarity and beer stability (ie) life of the beer. Polyphenols also drop out, they also affect beer stability and interact with proteins. Although, not all these compounds are removed during lagering, if that were to happen you would have a beer with no head but, excessive stuff does drop.

Some, maybe most brewers don't differentiate between the cool temperatures where the yeast is still active and cold temperatures where it is not working but I take it as a completely different phase between what the yeast is doing when still active and when it is not - if that makes sense as different compounds are being targeted. If you have a starch haze problem, that too will form and drop out during lagering given enough time or perhaps with the aid of some finings (I've never used them and always had clear beer) Hope this helps.

-=Steve=-
 

Hippy

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I'm currently lagering a batch of bo pils using the labels method.
Ferment about 10 days at 11 degrees. D rest at about 18 for 2-3 days, drop to 10 degrees then 1 degree a day to 2 degrees for 2 days and add polyclar. Rack to secondary(Keg) and at -2 degrees for a week then filter into another keg.
First time I've used this method and am at the -2 stage. Tasted the brew before D rest and was riddled with it and acetylahide.
tasted again when racking to secondary and it was the cleanest tasting pilsener I've ever done, pretty stoked with it actually. Will be filtering and carbing on the weekend.
 

Spiesy

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Thanks Steve, for your input... going by your logic - what is your method?

Hippy, wow - bit of a remarkable turnaround with your pre and post d-rest samples! Nice one.
 

Spiesy

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Also, interesting to see how the voting has panned out. Results are split quite a bit.
 

labels

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Spiesy said:
Thanks Steve, for your input... going by your logic - what is your method?

Hippy, wow - bit of a remarkable turnaround with your pre and post d-rest samples! Nice one.
Do what Hippy is doing, you can't go wrong

Steve
 

Hippy

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labels said:
Do what Hippy is doing, you can't go wrong

Steve
Like I said it's the "labels" method.
Thanks Steve, your detailed explanations on your methodologies have lead to inspiring me to have another go at doing lagers and pilseners and it seems to be working so far.
 

labels

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Hippy said:
Like I said it's the "labels" method.
Thanks Steve, your detailed explanations on your methodologies have lead to inspiring me to have another go at doing lagers and pilseners and it seems to be working so far.
When your beer is finished, send me a message and tell me what you think, I'd apprecaite that
Thanks, Steve
 

micblair

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Jamil and Palmer, dispel(?) the slow drop in lagering temp. I know it's still used by many German breweries, but to me warming it up and doing a D-rest once the flavour's been set seems more sensible, then cold crashing.
 

labels

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micblair said:
Jamil and Palmer, dispel(?) the slow drop in lagering temp. I know it's still used by many German breweries, but to me warming it up and doing a D-rest once the flavour's been set seems more sensible, then cold crashing.
How do you know the flavour has been set? It's not really a measurable thing at that stage of the cycle. I no doubt Palmer is considerably more experienced than I am but even he has changed direction a few times on the nuances of certain techniques in brewing.
I started with Palmers book as my bible so don't get me wrong but right now I'm exploring my own pathway in brewing through experimentation and sharing this knowledge here - especially with lagers which is my area of expertise.

-=Steve=-
 

Hippy

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labels said:
When your beer is finished, send me a message and tell me what you think, I'd apprecaite that
Thanks, Steve
Will do mate.
Cheers
Shaun
 

Nick JD

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Hippy said:
I'm currently lagering a batch of bo pils using the labels method.
Ferment about 10 days at 11 degrees. D rest at about 18 for 2-3 days, drop to 10 degrees then 1 degree a day to 2 degrees for 2 days and add polyclar. Rack to secondary(Keg) and at -2 degrees for a week then filter into another keg.
First time I've used this method and am at the -2 stage. Tasted the brew before D rest and was riddled with it and acetylahide.
tasted again when racking to secondary and it was the cleanest tasting pilsener I've ever done, pretty stoked with it actually. Will be filtering and carbing on the weekend.
So you taste it at 11C and then at 2C and it tasted cleaner?
 

Bada Bing Brewery

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I've got 2 cubes fermenting with 2042 Danish lager 3 days into primary. I've got an extra fridge so I might try one using labels method and the other crash chill. Should be interesting.
Cheers
BBB

grain bill

Original Gravity (OG): 1.048 (°P): 11.9
Final Gravity (FG): 1.012 (°P): 3.1
Alcohol (ABV): 4.72 %
Colour (SRM): 3.8 (EBC): 7.5
Bitterness (IBU): 33.1 (Average - No Chill Adjusted)

89.82% Weyermann Boh Pilsner
4.79% Carapils (Dextrine)
4.79% Munich I
0.6% Melanoidin

0.6 g/L Magnum (12.2% Alpha) @ 45 Minutes (Boil)
0.8 g/L Hersbrucker (4.2% Alpha) @ 30 Minutes (Boil)
0.6 g/L Hersbrucker (4.2% Alpha) @ 15 Minutes (Boil)
0.5 g/L Hersbrucker (4.2% Alpha) @ 2 Minutes (Boil)

0.2 g/L CaSO4 @ 0 Minutes (Mash)
0.3 g/L Brewbright @ 0 Minutes (Boil)
0.2 g/L CaSO4 @ 0 Minutes (Boil)
Step mash, 55C 15m, 62C 50m, 72C 20m, 78C mashout 10m. Boil for 90 Minutes
Fermented at 9°C with Wyeast 2042 - Danish Lager
 

Hippy

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Nick JD said:
So you taste it at 11C and then at 2C and it tasted cleaner?
Yes mate.
Cleaner than other pilseners I've done previously. Obviously a lot of yeast will have dropped out at the lower temp, but that's not what I'm getting at.
 

Spiesy

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Nick JD said:
So you taste it at 11C and then at 2C and it tasted cleaner?
I think you're jumping to the fact that at the cooler temperature (cold temperature, actually) - more flavour and general nastiness is not going to be detectable, but you're skipping the fact that a d-rest has been performed in between (which may get rid of diacetyl), and there also appears to be an additional 20-days between the 11C tasting and the 2C tasting - which could have driven off acetaldehyde and sulphur.

If I am making an incorrect assumption here, my apologies.
 

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