Lagering - What Do You Use?

[Brend0]

I have been brewing AG for a year or two now and have never really ventured out side of making ales, wheat beers, stouts ect. mainly because i haven't had the facility to lager.

What does everyone use? modified bar fridges? what did you modify it with? and is it hard/expencive ?



Thanks in advance!!
Brendan

 

[Nick JD]

I make lagers at 11-14C but rarely "lager" them for periods of time.

Lagers are more about the yeast than extended cold storage periods.

Grab yourself some nice lager yeast (S189, 34/70 or even S23 are great if you don't want to step up liquid yeasts), ferment them between 10C and 15C, and you made a lager.

 

[Brend0]

What do you use to keep the fermenter between 10 and 15C ?

 

[felten]

a fridge that was third hand when we got it 25 years ago

 

[Brend0]

Is it modified for temperature control ?

 

[jakethesnake559]

Hi Brend0,

I have a fridge that I use as a kegerator most of the time.
When I put a brew on, I take the kegs out and use it as a fermentation fridge.

I picked up a Brewmate (STC1000) AUTO SWITCH DIGITAL Temperature Control thermostat from ibrew online.
ibrew

It was $165 + $33 for a stainless steel probe (optional).
It's fully wired, you stick the probe through your fermenter lid, plug the fridge and heater into it and forget about it.

Usually I brew ales at 18c, but did a lager late last year at 10c now worries.
Then dropped the temp to 2c for a month.
The fridge coped fine and I could have gone longer, only problem was I was tying up my kegerator!!

$165 is WAY expensive, and if you have any basic electrical ability you could wire it up yourself.
I don't have such skills, so just paid the extra for it :unsure: .
I think you can pick up a basic STC1000 controller for about $60...without wires/probe etc.

One day when I get more space, I'm hoping to run a separate fridge for fermenting...one day :icon_cheers: .

 

[Brend0]

So the temp controller is hard to install ?

What temp does a fridge usually run at? I have a keg fridge I could use but it ismy gf's mums fridge... I dont know how she would be if I started pulling it apart.

 

[white.grant]

The temp controllers like the stc1000 don't interfere with the fridge internals.

You basically plug the fridge into the temp controller and plug the temp controller into the wall. The temp controller turns the power on and off depending on the set point and temperature of the fridge. They are not difficult to wire up but standard warnings about playing with 240volts if you are properly qualified etc apply here.

 

[Brend0]

As in - plug the fridge power into the temp controller, then temp controller power to the wall ?

seems easy enough ?

 

[seamad]

The stc has a heat and cool output. Plug fridge into it, put temp probe that comes with it in ( i put mine in the fermenter ) the fridge. Use the google search on this forum for stc-100, shitloads of info including wiring diagrams
cheers
Sean

 

[warra48]

I use a bar fridge for my fermentation and lagering.
The temperature is controlled with a TempMate from CraftBrewer.
Easy enough to wire up, there's some really good threads on here.
I ferment lagers and lager all in primary, and bottle from there. I don't even transfer for lagering, just drop the temperature from about 9 to 10C fermentation to about 2C for lagering for as long as I can stand it. Ales are fermented at 18 to 20C.
No need to get all fancy. Keep it simple.

I don't do many lagers, but I time it so that the lagering happens when we're away on holidays etc, so it deosn't interfere with other use of the fridge.

 

[jakethesnake559]

As in - plug the fridge power into the temp controller, then temp controller power to the wall ?

seems easy enough ?

Yep, the controller has two female plugs coming out of it...one for your fridge power cord, the other for your heater.
It also has it's own power cord that you plug into the powerpoint.

As mentioned above, you don't have to fiddle around with the internals of the fridge...just plug it in.

 

[felten]

I use a fridgemate, got it for ~$45. But the STC1000s are a lot cheaper (on ebay) and better from what I can tell.

 

[Maxt]

I make lagers at 11-14C but rarely "lager" them for periods of time.

Lagers are more about the yeast than extended cold storage periods.

If you have the gear and can wait, try it some time, you may be surprised. Lager(ing) is the name of the process not the beer (or the yeast).

 

[manticle]

I have been brewing AG for a year or two now and have never really ventured out side of making ales, wheat beers, stouts ect. mainly because i haven't had the facility to lager.

What does everyone use? modified bar fridges? what did you modify it with? and is it hard/expencive ?



Thanks in advance!!
Brendan

Free fridge, used as a fridge*.

I disagree with Nick.

*for lagering, not for fermentation. Fermentation I use a water bath with ice bricks and only brew lagers between May and August. I am in Melbourne so that is possible.

 

[cam89brewer]

Free fridge, used as a fridge.

I disagree with Nick.

+1 I find that it is more important to lager for longer when you are kegging but I tend to only lager for a week or 2 when bottling as you generally have to wait a few months to condition in the bottle anyway.

 

[cam89brewer]

I also simply lager in my keg fridge in a spare fermenter as the standard 2-4C is perfect for lagering.

 

[Nick JD]

I find lagering for long periods is a pain in the ass and prefer to use fining agents to get the beer clear and into the keg around a week after it's finished.

It does get better after a month or two of lagering ... but taking up fridge space and costing a box of Pilsner Urquell wirth of electricity to keep at 1C for 3 months is a false economy for a slight increase in quality.

YMMV - but I want to make more beer not sit there watching paint dry.

 

[SJW]

I have spent my entire brewing life mainly brewing Lagers. I am sad to say after 100's of brews I am still trying to make the perfect brew. I have come close once with a Bock and again once or twice with festival style German Lagers and got 1st in a local comp with a Schwartzbeir. Anyone can make a Lager but very few can make a great one, worthy of the title.
A few things you should have to make a great Lager are temp controlled fermentation. This is a must. Maybe you could jag some good weather and luck by doing all kinds of crazy things but there is only one way to ferment with accurate temps, and I just duct tape the probe to the outside of the fermenter and tests have shown that the wort is 2 deg warmer so I adjust the controller to suit.
Also a good healthy, active amount of yeast. Remembering that Urquell pitch 15 million cells per ml or wort. (do the math).
But if you keep the recipe simple, i.e. 100% Pils malt, use loads of Saaz plugs preferably, do a two or three step decoction, chill quick after the boil, aeration of the wort should not be a big issue if you pitch enough yeast, Then pitch cold letting it warm up to may 12 deg C, then get it of the yeast cake ASAP, and keg or lager near 0 for as long as possible, and even if you can do all that it isnt worth a pinch of goat **** unless your brewing technique is perfect and you hygiene even better. Even then, if the planets all line up and the beer gods are smiling on you on brew day you have a small chance of making a beer worthy of the name LAGER.
I must admit some of the best ones I have ever made were just luck, I have no idea what made them better than others. I hope now that I am brewing with the Braumeister I can recreate the same beer over and over with more predictability. There were just too many variables using the old 3v system.

Good luck

Steve

 

[cam89brewer]

I have spent my entire brewing life mainly brewing Lagers. I am sad to say after 100's of brews I am still trying to make the perfect brew. I have come close once with a Bock and again once or twice with festival style German Lagers and got 1st in a local comp with a Schwartzbeir. Anyone can make a Lager but very few can make a great one, worthy of the title.
A few things you should have to make a great Lager are temp controlled fermentation. This is a must. Maybe you could jag some good weather and luck by doing all kinds of crazy things but there is only one way to ferment with accurate temps, and I just duct tape the probe to the outside of the fermenter and tests have shown that the wort is 2 deg warmer so I adjust the controller to suit.
Also a good healthy, active amount of yeast. Remembering that Urquell pitch 15 million cells per ml or wort. (do the math).
But if you keep the recipe simple, i.e. 100% Pils malt, use loads of Saaz plugs preferably, do a two or three step decoction, chill quick after the boil, aeration of the wort should not be a big issue if you pitch enough yeast, Then pitch cold letting it warm up to may 12 deg C, then get it of the yeast cake ASAP, and keg or lager near 0 for as long as possible, and even if you can do all that it isnt worth a pinch of goat **** unless your brewing technique is perfect and you hygiene even better. Even then, if the planets all line up and the beer gods are smiling on you on brew day you have a small chance of making a beer worthy of the name LAGER.
I must admit some of the best ones I have ever made were just luck, I have no idea what made them better than others. I hope now that I am brewing with the Braumeister I can recreate the same beer over and over with more predictability. There were just too many variables using the old 3v system.

Good luck

Steve

I agree. The thing that makes it so hard to make a great lager is that by having so much clarity not only allows you to taste all the wonderful flavours you may introduce but it also makes it very easy to notice any flaws in your beer, so by keeping it simple allows a lot less things to go wrong.

 

[Nick JD]

If you need to lager your lager for months to get it clear and tasting supurb you don't know much about lager brewing.

Sure, you can do that, but you don't have to. How many commercial lagers the world over are matured for months? Very few, if not none.

Filters, fining agents and skill will have that fridge free for the NEXT LAGER.

I'm not saying you shouldn't devote your fridge to -1C for 3 months and burn the equivalent power to pay for the beer in boxes of Cz Pils, but for those wanting to start out (this OP) in lager brewing the best way to put them off is to act like lagers are some kind of holy grail that should be worshiped ... they're not, they're just beer fermented slightly cooler.

The OP wants advice that will have him enjoying lager, not winning competitions; so mnay people give up making lagers because they only are aware of the insanly time-consuming way to make them, not the fining, filter and drink a week after primary way, which makes the beer about 98% as good back to back with a long lagered batch.

 

[Bribie G]

The best selling Pils in Germany is brewed at 13 and lagered for 10 days. It's no Pilsner Urquell or Zlatopramen but it's obviously a popular drop.

I guess that the traditional lagers were made the way they were because they could, and really had to.
They had underground caves and passages that they could keep at near freezing cheaply and the lagering was their way of clearing out the beer to crystal clarity, thus removing chill haze etc by months of settling.

However as Nick pointed out we have modern techy shortcuts like Polyclar and modern refrigeration which can hold the beer at -1 (was it Murrays that told the lads on a trip down there that a week at -1 is the equivalent of a month at "normal" fridge temps? I think Ross mentioned it.)

Last year I brewed a German Pils in February for the BABBs comp in July and it won the lagers and picked up a trophy. I continued lagering it in the keg and it bombed at the State Comp - it had passed its best and developing dry astringency even at zero degrees. By October I tipped the rest as it was beginning to taste really unpleasant. I'm doing another one this year but I'll try that 13 / couple of weeks lagering method.

 

[manticle]

Nick:

Not necessarily three months but I find ALL beers, ales and lagers, benefit from some time in the fridge and I prefer not to add fish guts, cow's hooves or little pieces of plastic to my beer. 1-4 weeks for all beers - lagers, belgians and alts at the longer end, ales at the shorter.

It's not hard putting a fermenter in a fridge. You have another method that works for you - great. Not going to tell anyone they're doing it wrong but I prefer my beers when they's got a touch of lager about them.

 

[SJW]

I must admit that on very few if any occasions I have left a Lager alone for 3 months before drinking. As u could see from that Braumeister video I made, the Czech pilsner I poured that day had been fermenter for 10 days, crash chilled for 2 then it had been in the keg 10 days with gelatine, and it was pretty clear, and it got better too.
The way I see it if it takes me 3 months to drink one particular beer then the last schooy of that brew had been lagered for 3 months.

Steve

 

[Nick JD]

Nick:

Not necessarily three months but I find ALL beers, ales and lagers, benefit from some time in the fridge and I prefer not to add fish guts, cow's hooves or little pieces of plastic to my beer. 1-4 weeks for all beers - lagers, belgians and alts at the longer end, ales at the shorter.

It's not hard putting a fermenter in a fridge. You have another method that works for you - great. Not going to tell anyone they're doing it wrong but I prefer my beers when they's got a touch of lager about them.

You bottle though, don't you? You beer will be 2-4 weeks old when it's ready to drink...

 

[manticle]

Yes I bottle but that bottle conditioning time is at ale temps, not lagering temps. Unless I've missed what you mean?

 

[bruce86]

hey guy just to join in with the thread. When you are talking about largering you mean using a primary or secondary right. is it possible to larger bottles after they have had say 3 weeks at room then leave for say a week in a cold fridge or till it has fully conditioned. i realise it prob wont get as clear as in a secondary but will it give a similar effect?

 

[manticle]

Similar. The point to lagering is that cold, time and gravity work to drop various things out of the beer - proteins, hop particles, yeast etc.

If you do that in a fermenter or large/bulk vessel, when you transfer the bulk of the beer to keg or bottle, you can leave all that behind. If you lager in the bottle, then the stuff that drops out is in the bottom of each bottle.

I can more easily fit a fermenter in my fridge (or cube) than I can 28 bottles sitting upright.

 

[bruce86]

Similar. The point to lagering is that cold, time and gravity work to drop various things out of the beer - proteins, hop particles, yeast etc.

If you do that in a fermenter or large/bulk vessel, when you transfer the bulk of the beer to keg or bottle, you can leave all that behind. If you lager in the bottle, then the stuff that drops out is in the bottom of each bottle.

I can more easily fit a fermenter in my fridge (or cube) than I can 28 bottles sitting upright.

Ok cool cheers for that manticle. If say i had already done it (found an old fridge and had the space for 28 bottles ) would the protiens etc stay at the bottom of a bottle like the yeast if you pour it out carefully or would it be more likely to stir straight back into solution. oh by done it i put them in yesterday didnt have the facilities to larger 3 weeks ago with the ferm freezer having another beer in it.

cheers

 

[Steve@PMF82]

All lagering is , storing beer for a long time at cold temps.
IMO there are benefits doing this in bulk, but eventually the same things will happen if you bottle first.
Its just gravity, cold and time.

Ive only done a few lagers, but yeah you can achieve all of the same things that happen over time, by cold condition for a week at -1, with some Polyclar, then running through a filter, bright , FRESH and clean tasting Lager Style beer.

Of course this assumes that you have pitched a shed load of yeast at 10 - 12 degrees and given it 2 weeks in primary.