Lagering And No-chilling

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Effect

Hop extract brewer
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Hi there,

I have had a few thoughts regarding conditioning / lagering. This, however, has nothing to do with yeast flocculation. With bolder beers, such as barley wines, stouts etc, where a conditioning/lagering time will help improve the beer, help it smooth out some rough edges etc, or for the bittering hops to calm down a tad. It has gotten me thinking about no-chilling and how long one leaves it in the cube.

I have a barley wine in the cube (has been for 4 months now). I wanted to ferment it out (ideally 1 week after brewing) and let it sit for 6 months to condition and smooth out. Will I need to still do 6 months or has the 4 months in the cube already started to do that for me?

Could the same be said for, say, a munich dunkel? Instead of lagering for 6 months after fementing, cube it for 3 months, ferment for 1 week primary, 3 weeks secondary and 2 months in the keg. Because all up that is 6 months...

Cheers
Phil
 
Pretty sure the conditioning time matures the beer after fermentation. I can't imagine pre-fermentation time would have much to do with it as the products of fermentation won't be present.

I'm happy to be wrong.
 
Pretty sure the conditioning time matures the beer after fermentation. I can't imagine pre-fermentation time would have much to do with it as the products of fermentation won't be present.

I'm happy to be wrong.


That is what my brain is telling me as well manticle, but the hop bitterness will - according to texts that I have read - halve each year after chilling and kept at room temp. That is what is making me question my thoughts regarding conditioning...and then it makes me also quesiton, will it also be smoothing out other flavours...or are they able to be smoothed out once the yeast has done its business.
 
I guess any flavour that's present could be smoothed out but any that come later will require conditioning later.

The words 'I guess' mean I don't know - that's just what makes sense to me.

Brew a double batch.
Cube both.
Ferment one after a week or less and leave the other.
When the other has been lagered for a month, ferment the second, lager it and bottle/keg both at the same time.
 
I guess any flavour that's present could be smoothed out but any that come later will require conditioning later.

The words 'I guess' mean I don't know - that's just what makes sense to me.

Brew a double batch.
Cube both.
Ferment one after a week or less and leave the other.
When the other has been lagered for a month, ferment the second, lager it and bottle/keg both at the same time.

Interesting. As I am planning on doing a double batch of irish red ale...but will be using different yeasts on a chilled version (1084) and dry hopped version on the no chilled one (1187 + dry hop of EKG), so that won't really give me a great indicator of the affects of leaving it in the cube...

Cheers
Phil
 
Maybe it's just me, but I dont understand why you would would want to store your beer for 6 months without drinking it!
 
Good question Phil, I reckon its more akin to a fresh wort kit when in 'nochill cube stage'. I suspect the lagering time will still be required.

Not to say that if its lagering in a keg in the fridge, that you cant have a sampler every now and then! :)
 
In the cube is a solution of sugars and hop compounds.

In the fermenter (at the end of fermentation) is a solution with almost no sugars, alcohols, weird esters, yeast, a gazillion byproducts of fermentation and CO2.

You can feed your cows chocolate, but it's unlikely they will produce Chocolate Milkshakes.
 
I think there is a lot of non-yeast particulates that will fall out over a long time. I also heard a story probably on these forums about some guy (I think in the US?) who had left a cube for years before fermenting, the story was that is turned out excellent.

I imagine you will see for yourself how much crud is at the bottom of the cube when you tip it into the fermenter!
 
some of what happens in lagering might well happen in a cube - but it wont be all.

First - and probably foremost, there is yeast present in the picture when you lager or cold condition... they are almost dormant at those temps... but almost dormant is different to not there.

Second - the solution is chemically different, levels of sugar, levels of alcohol, levels of.... well pretty much everything. So you are aging two different substances. They'll probably react differently.

Third - Temperature. The cold itself is a major contributor to whats happening when you lager a beer. You cant lager at room temp and I'm guessing most people dont store their NC cubes at 2 degrees C

Not saying nothing happens to a wort left in a cube over time... its just that the only thing that is similar about an aged NC cube and a lagered beer, is the actual passage of time - everything else is pretty much different, so the results are unlikely to be similar.
 
If you get some break material in the cube, would this be detrimental to long term storage and flavour?
 
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