KK - 'Fermentasaurus' conical PET fermenter

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w1nta

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Hi all, I'm looking at buying a Fermentasaurus and really appreciate all the info in this thread, I have read the whole lot thanks everyone. I have a noob question though... I still bottle my brews by bulk priming and am interested in fermenting under pressure. Can I bottle straight out of the Fermentasaurus (after it has fermented under pressure) cap my bottles and I'm done? Is that going to be the correct volumes of CO2?

Thanks!
 

malt junkie

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w1nta said:
Hi all, I'm looking at buying a Fermentasaurus and really appreciate all the info in this thread, I have read the whole lot thanks everyone. I have a noob question though... I still bottle my brews by bulk priming and am interested in fermenting under pressure. Can I bottle straight out of the Fermentasaurus (after it has fermented under pressure) cap my bottles and I'm done? Is that going to be the correct volumes of CO2?

Thanks!
To bottle and retain carbonation, you would ideally use a counter pressure bottle filler (CPBF) in which case you would also need a Co2 bottle and a regulator. Priming a beer that has been fermented under pressure is hit and miss(risky) as it's hard to say what level of Co2 is in solution already. So ferment with out pressure and you can bottle as normal. Ferment under pressure and you'll need a keg setup OR a CPBF (beer gun would also work though I've not tried one) and Co2 bottle with reg. Obviously there are tips and tricks for using beer guns and CPBFs, though these don't really relate to this thread.
 

professional_drunk

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w1nta said:
Hi all, I'm looking at buying a Fermentasaurus and really appreciate all the info in this thread, I have read the whole lot thanks everyone. I have a noob question though... I still bottle my brews by bulk priming and am interested in fermenting under pressure. Can I bottle straight out of the Fermentasaurus (after it has fermented under pressure) cap my bottles and I'm done? Is that going to be the correct volumes of CO2?

Thanks!
You could potentially release all the pressure and bottle straight away. Would the beer foam up and making bottling impossible if you pass carbonated beer through a bottling wand? Don't know but I'd try a few bottles and keg the rest first to try it out.
 

w1nta

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Thanks professional_drunk and malt junkie. I suspected it wasn't going to be so simple. I think I'll still get one as I will be moving to kegs soon.
 

Lionman

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Your bottles won't store as well.

From experience counter pressure filling using a carbonation cap, bottles are not well carbonated and really need to be consumed within a day or two.

I think you would be best served venting the fermenter, bulk priming and bottle conditioning.

Or move to kegging.
 

wobbly

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It;s very interesting to note the various comments on both this subject and the pressure fermenting topics that purport to be based on some knowledge base.
  • Don't exceed 10-15psi pressure when fermenting otherwise the yeast will/may die.
  • Bottles filled from your pressure fermented beer will not store well
  • Filling bottles with a counter pressure filler with beer fermented under pressure isn't a real good idea you should depressurize the fermenter and bottle then add back some sort of fermentable for carbonation.
I regularly bottle from my WW and use a counter pressure set up to do it and those beers/bottles keep well for up to 12 weeks (longest I have kept any pale ales) I bottle at 1.5bar (21PSI) and use CO2 to vent the bottle and bring it up to equal or just below the pressure in the WW

There may or may not be a lot of published data on the subject of fermenting under pressure but in any event those that are doing or considering doing it could do a lot worse than down load the Williamswarn owners manual from their site and take on board how they recommend you ferment under pressure, temperatures and time etc.
For example they recommend 1.5bar (21psi) and 4 days at 23C for ales and then cold crash and clarify. For lagers they recommend 1.5bar (21psi) for 3 days at 15C and then raise the temperature to 18C for another three days before cold crashing and clarifying.

There are many on this site that bagged the Williamswarn as being overpriced etc etc but the fact remains that their processes and procedures work and will also work for any pressure fermenting be it in a Fermentasaurus, a keg or any other vessel that will safely withstand upto 3bar (42psi) pressure

Wobbly
 

barls

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wobbly said:
It;s very interesting to note the various comments on both this subject and the pressure fermenting topics that purport to be based on some knowledge base.
  • Don't exceed 10-15psi pressure when fermenting otherwise the yeast will/may die.
  • Bottles filled from your pressure fermented beer will not store well
  • Filling bottles with a counter pressure filler with beer fermented under pressure isn't a real good idea you should depressurize the fermenter and bottle then add back some sort of fermentable for carbonation.
I regularly bottle from my WW and use a counter pressure set up to do it and those beers/bottles keep well for up to 12 weeks (longest I have kept any pale ales) I bottle at 1.5bar (21PSI) and use CO2 to vent the bottle and bring it up to equal or just below the pressure in the WW

There may or may not be a lot of published data on the subject of fermenting under pressure but in any event those that are doing or considering doing it could do a lot worse than down load the Williamswarn owners manual from their site and take on board how they recommend you ferment under pressure, temperatures and time etc.
For example they recommend 1.5bar (21psi) and 4 days at 23C for ales and then cold crash and clarify. For lagers they recommend 1.5bar (21psi) for 3 days at 15C and then raise the temperature to 18C for another three days before cold crashing and clarifying.

There are many on this site that bagged the Williamswarn as being overpriced etc etc but the fact remains that their processes and procedures work and will also work for any pressure fermenting be it in a Fermentasaurus, a keg or any other vessel that will safely withstand upto 3bar (42psi) pressure

Wobbly
nope we bagged the owner who came on and called us all uneducated tolls. that was after one question and uncalled for. why do you need to turn every post in to an ad for the product. this is closer that the one on fining where you derailed the whole thread with your pushing of the product, this is not a retail thread for the ww but a different product discussion
so lets stop pushing it and keep to the topic please. there will be no other warnings posts will be edited or hidden.
 

malt junkie

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Lionman said:
Your bottles won't store as well.

From experience counter pressure filling using a carbonation cap, bottles are not well carbonated and really need to be consumed within a day or two.

I think you would be best served venting the fermenter, bulk priming and bottle conditioning.

Or move to kegging.
At what rate would YOU bulk prime a partially carbonated beer?????

I'm sure some of our more experienced brewers could come up with something pretty close, if they took extensive notes, and did some complex calculations. Even then most of them would only do so in PET. From where I sit you've just given someone instructions to make bottle bombs.

Using an actual CPBF correctly is a little different to using a carb cap. I just finished the last bottle of a coffee stout I CPBF 2 years ago, taste the same (if not better) as the day I bottled it. I have carb caps, and use them for specific tasks, I have the CPBF for bottling, permanently attached to one of my keezers. If you take the time to learn to use them correctly they work well.

2c
 

Lionman

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malt junkie said:
At what rate would YOU bulk prime a partially carbonated beer?????

I'm sure some of our more experienced brewers could come up with something pretty close, if they took extensive notes, and did some complex calculations. Even then most of them would only do so in PET. From where I sit you've just given someone instructions to make bottle bombs.

Using an actual CPBF correctly is a little different to using a carb cap. I just finished the last bottle of a coffee stout I CPBF 2 years ago, taste the same (if not better) as the day I bottled it. I have carb caps, and use them for specific tasks, I have the CPBF for bottling, permanently attached to one of my keezers. If you take the time to learn to use them correctly they work well.

2c
I can't answer that question although it could be calculated. I would say you would only need to add a small amount to bring the bottle up to pressure.

I have counter pressure filled from kegs and the beer is not as good as direct from the tap or from bottles that have been naturally carbonated.

The main issue I think is that the bottles lose co2 out of solution. When you remove the filling cap to add the bottle cap the beer is at atmospheric pressure. It will lose co2 into the head space until the pressure has equalised. This on top of the co2 lost during the filling process is enough to end up with a less carbonated beer, which may or may not be an issue depending on the brewer and beer style.
 

w1nta

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malt junkie said:
To bottle and retain carbonation, you would ideally use a counter pressure bottle filler (CPBF) in which case you would also need a Co2 bottle and a regulator. Priming a beer that has been fermented under pressure is hit and miss(risky) as it's hard to say what level of Co2 is in solution already. So ferment with out pressure and you can bottle as normal. Ferment under pressure and you'll need a keg setup OR a CPBF (beer gun would also work though I've not tried one) and Co2 bottle with reg. Obviously there are tips and tricks for using beer guns and CPBFs, though these don't really relate to this thread.
One more question on the possibility of bottling pre-carbonated beer from the Fermentasaurus... I have been reading about the Blichmann Beer gun and it sounds like it would do the job of a counter pressure bottle filler but a bit simpler.

Has anyone used one of these and are their claims realistic?

For a recap, I'm trying to simplify the bottling process and wondering if I can ferment under pressure then carbonate with more pressure if necessary from a CO2 bottle, then bottle my carbonated brew possibly with this beer gun. Another of my pet hates is how long it takes to fill the bottles with just gravity pressure. Such a pain.

https://cheekypeakbrewery.com.au/blichmann-beer-gun

Powered by Quiescent Flow Technology, this revolutionary new bottle filler eliminates the complicated, time-consuming operation and cleaning of traditional CP bottle fillers used to fill bottles from kegs while maintaining their primary function – purging a bottle with CO2 (no oxygen pickup) and filling it with minimal foaming and carbonation loss. Couple that with the auto-fill level – and the ability to fill bottles of any depth without modification – and this filler is a clear standout.
Quiescent Flow Technology is so different and so easy to use that it’s another of our patented innovations! Our filler gradually reduces beer from keg pressure to atmospheric pressure with little turbulence, doing away with the complicated valving and cumbersome use of traditional CP filters. The result is a consistent bottle fill with little foaming and no oxygen pickup.
Foaming is caused predominantly by turbulence and sudden changes in pressure. The unique design of the BeerGun eliminates the need to pressurize the bottle by providing a non-throttling, quick-acting valve placed at the bottom of the filler stem and a beer-delivery system that is very low in turbulence. Competitors place their valve at the top of the filler, which forces the beer down an empty tube each time, kicking up foam along the way. Placing the valve at the bottom not only quickly immerses the valve in the beer but further reduces pressure change and turbulence, keeping the stem full of beer at all times. And because the beer is sealed in the filler stem when the BeerGun is removed from the bottle, it automatically provides a consistent bottle fill level.
 

professional_drunk

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I think CPBF is more a PITA than natural carbonation. The only reason you should do it is if you're bottling from a keg.
If bottle filling is slow, then use a bit of CO2 to move it along.
 

malt junkie

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professional_drunk said:
I think CPBF is more a PITA than natural carbonation. The only reason you should do it is if you're bottling from a keg.
If bottle filling is slow, then use a bit of CO2 to move it along.
yes, but why is it once a micro goes big it's one of the first things they change.

Yes the blicmann will do the job, the mistake most people make is trying to bottle beer that has been carbonated for service, the beer needs to be slightly over this, if using A CPBF the filling and flushing pressures should be slightly higher again. If you check out some of the fancy 4 bottle jobbies on youtube, you should get a glimpes at what they have their gauges set to, this differs slightly from brewery to brewery 18- 20psi is the ball park.
 

Rod

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maybe use growlers
 

klangers

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It isn't hard at all to determine how much CO2 is in solution. You just need the pressure (on the gauge) and temperature (on your fridge), and have given it enough time to equilibriate (days). Then look up a solubility chart. It's all more or less proportional, so if you have half the CO2 volumes you want after fermentation, then knock down your normal priming by 50%. Simple. Ideally you'll carbonate fully in the fermenter to avoid priming.

No need to depressurise anything. Even if you did it's only temporarily; the CO2 would still be in the beer.

If there still is an active yeast in the beer, then there's no reason as to why the pressure-fermented and already-carbonated beer can't last as long as a bottle conditioned beer. It's just to do with the fact that the yeast will eat up any oxygen.

You can bottle from the fermenter but you should invest in at least bottling wand. It'll be like pouring a beer from a keg - you have to control foaming. You can do this either by counter pressure, so the bottle is marginally less pressure than the fermenter (and thus the CO2 stays in solution), or simply by slowing down the flow and filling from the bottom (minimises foaming). Whether or not you then add priming sugar depends on the carbonation level.

  • Don't exceed 10-15psi pressure when fermenting otherwise the yeast will/may die.
  • Bottles filled from your pressure fermented beer will not store well
  • Filling bottles with a counter pressure filler with beer fermented under pressure isn't a real good idea you should depressurize the fermenter and bottle then add back some sort of fermentable for carbonation.
This is 100% untrue. There's a lot of bullshit smoke and mirrors in this thread.
 

bradsbrew

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Just a word of advice, do not put a picnic tap onto the fermenter once it is carbonated. Somehow what was 22L in the fermenter was only 11L when I got around to kegging. I have no idea or memory what happened to the rest, your honour. :chug: :ph34r:
 

Lionman

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malt junkie said:
yes, but why is it once a micro goes big it's one of the first things they change.

Yes the blicmann will do the job, the mistake most people make is trying to bottle beer that has been carbonated for service, the beer needs to be slightly over this, if using A CPBF the filling and flushing pressures should be slightly higher again. If you check out some of the fancy 4 bottle jobbies on youtube, you should get a glimpes at what they have their gauges set to, this differs slightly from brewery to brewery 18- 20psi is the ball park.
I must admit, when I have used the CPBF it has been at serving pressure and with CO2 levels at tap serving levels. I haven't tried carbonating a keg purely for bottle filling and bottling the entire lot, but I also don't know why anyone would do that.

I accept that bottling from a Fermentasaurus is a different thing altogether.
 

kiwirevo

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I just got a fermentasaurus for my birthday and am planning on bottling from it. My plan is to let the beer ferment under the airlock until done, then add the priming sugar to the fermenter with the pressure lid as I don't have a spunding valve, as well as the finings so it should carb & clear nicely. I'll aim for a bit more priming sugar than I'd normally go for to compensate for the lost CO2 during bottling. I don't have a CO2 bottle yet I'll just get a regulator and Sodastream adaptor for the bottling.

First brew will be this weekend, not sure if I'll have the bottling equipment in time so this one may just be bottled normally.

w1nta said:
One more question on the possibility of bottling pre-carbonated beer from the Fermentasaurus... I have been reading about the Blichmann Beer gun and it sounds like it would do the job of a counter pressure bottle filler but a bit simpler.

Has anyone used one of these and are their claims realistic?

For a recap, I'm trying to simplify the bottling process and wondering if I can ferment under pressure then carbonate with more pressure if necessary from a CO2 bottle, then bottle my carbonated brew possibly with this beer gun. Another of my pet hates is how long it takes to fill the bottles with just gravity pressure. Such a pain.

https://cheekypeakbrewery.com.au/blichmann-beer-gun

Powered by Quiescent Flow Technology, this revolutionary new bottle filler eliminates the complicated, time-consuming operation and cleaning of traditional CP bottle fillers used to fill bottles from kegs while maintaining their primary function – purging a bottle with CO2 (no oxygen pickup) and filling it with minimal foaming and carbonation loss. Couple that with the auto-fill level – and the ability to fill bottles of any depth without modification – and this filler is a clear standout.
Quiescent Flow Technology is so different and so easy to use that it’s another of our patented innovations! Our filler gradually reduces beer from keg pressure to atmospheric pressure with little turbulence, doing away with the complicated valving and cumbersome use of traditional CP filters. The result is a consistent bottle fill with little foaming and no oxygen pickup.
Foaming is caused predominantly by turbulence and sudden changes in pressure. The unique design of the BeerGun eliminates the need to pressurize the bottle by providing a non-throttling, quick-acting valve placed at the bottom of the filler stem and a beer-delivery system that is very low in turbulence. Competitors place their valve at the top of the filler, which forces the beer down an empty tube each time, kicking up foam along the way. Placing the valve at the bottom not only quickly immerses the valve in the beer but further reduces pressure change and turbulence, keeping the stem full of beer at all times. And because the beer is sealed in the filler stem when the BeerGun is removed from the bottle, it automatically provides a consistent bottle fill level.
The blichmann looks like a good option but check out the american blichmann site as they have a newer version.

y plan is to let the beer ferment under the airlock until done, then add the priming sugar to the fermenter with the pressure lid as I don't have a spunding valve,
 

bradsbrew

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I gave mine a good clean before the first brew went into it. 3 batches under pressure and transferred each brew to kegs, out post to out post.

Might be time for it's second clean.................... :eek: Being able to dump most of the cake has created a bit of laziness.
 

Dan Pratt

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mine arrived today in the mail. looking forward to getting her cleaned and fermenting. B)
 

WE5TY

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First ferment in the fermentasaurus... my LHBS didn't have the pressure kit so I fermented naturally. Lesson learnt: don't use the airlock that comes with the starter kit. The lid clips on and has tiny holes for gas leak... not for a Krausen monster. This one was fine when I went to bed last night... not so fine in the morning. Still gushing out the top... I cleaned the airlock and in 5 minutes it had blocked again and was under pressure.
ImageUploadedByAussie Home Brewer1498174753.992262.jpg
 

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