Kit & Kilo Report: Tooheys Dark Ale

[RobH]

Back in Nov-Dec I did a Tooheys Dark kit with 500gm Coopers LDM & 500gm Dextrose. Used the kit yeast and brewed in primary fermenter for two weeks (temp range 20-24c) before bulk priming & bottling.

I have been sampling this one over the past 4 - 5 weeks now, and after a good 8 weeks in the bottle it isn't much different from when it was 4 weeks in the bottle ... rather thin and bland.

I think the main problem with this brew is that there is no distinctive flavour to this beer! The only discernible flavour is a slightly sweet malty flavour, which, even for a Porter style isn't quite right. Maybe they didn't (iso)hop it enough... I dunno, it ain't awful or anything, but it aint anything I'd waste my time brewing again.

Anyone else had any experiences with this kit?

 

[Gulf]

Next time try boiling the LDME in a few litres of water with a half ounce of Goldings/Fuggles hop pellets for about 15 or 20 mins.
Maybe also try a better yeast than what comes with the kit, say a pack of US-05, S-04, or a Cooper's reculture (at 17C).

 

[sicdog1]

Back in Nov-Dec I did a Tooheys Dark kit with 500gm Coopers LDM & 500gm Dextrose. Used the kit yeast and brewed in primary fermenter for two weeks (temp range 20-24c) before bulk priming & bottling.

I have been sampling this one over the past 4 - 5 weeks now, and after a good 8 weeks in the bottle it isn't much different from when it was 4 weeks in the bottle ... rather thin and bland.

I think the main problem with this brew is that there is no distinctive flavour to this beer! The only discernible flavour is a slightly sweet malty flavour, which, even for a Porter style isn't quite right. Maybe they didn't (iso)hop it enough... I dunno, it ain't awful or anything, but it aint anything I'd waste my time brewing again.

Anyone else had any experiences with this kit?

Hey Rob , i too have tryed a Tooheys homebrew but i did the special dry lager it aint that crash hot either
Bottled : 6/11/09 at FG: 1006 and am now onto the last 6 pack better but nothing id brew again
sd

 

[Bribie G]

In my kit n kilo days I never tried a Toohey's offering, but haven't heard any rave reviews about them. I get the impression that they (Lion Nathan) were stung into action to bring out a line of kits to counter that upstart family-owned brewing company in Adelaide who had snuck in and conquered the home brew market here and overseas. Similarly Cascade kits (Fosters).

However if Toohey's Dark is turning out bland and sweetish it may be a bit like Morgans IronBark Dark (which I have brewed a few times) and might benefit from another yeast as suggested, a kilo of LDME and a bittering addition of 20g of Pride of Ringwood or 15g of Superpride boiled for 20 mins and added to fermenter. Would bring it closer to Tooheys Old.

 

[RobboMC]

Instead of dme try adding a can of Morgans Dark Crystal ( if you can still get it ) from a HBS only though.

The new 1.5kg cans have a 'dark' variety but I haven't tried it yet, but I can't see how it would damage a Toohey's Old can.

If you like dark ale try Muntons Nut Brown, it's twice the price but you get what you pay for.
And if you want really good dark beer, follow both of these suggestions and brew a Nut Brown with Morgans Specialty malts only,
and include Gulf's suggestion of extra Goldings/Fuggles. Do this and you are well on your way to truly great dark beer.

PS that's what is in my little photo to the left.

 

[Fourstar]

any kit is going to be bland unfortunatly whtout the addition of some specialties, as noted already a small hop boil will give you some aroma and flavour of hops over just ISOhop bitterness I'd also suggest a small steep of grans to get that 'porter' flavour profile you desire.

Something like:

50-100g Chocmalt (i'd go for carafa special)
100g JW Caramalt
200g JW Crystal Malt

There you will get some roasty/chocolate flavours to boost it along with a balance of some crystal sweetness.

 

[petesbrew]

Maybe i'm biased, but i've had better luck with the Coopers Dark Ale kit.

 

[Nick JD]

Much better:

1.5kg Morgans Dark Crystal
1.0kg DDME
0.5kg Dextrose
350g Carapils
20g Pacific Gem for 50 min
10g Cascade for 15 min
US05 Yeast

In 5L of hot tap water, soak the Carapils in a voile bag (or stocking) for 30 minutes. Remove grain and bin it, add 300g of DDME. Bring to boil.

Add Pac Gem to boil and note time. After 35 minutes add Cascade. Pour the boil through a strainer into fermenter to leave spent hops behind and then add all other ingredients and dissolve.

Top up to 23L with cold tap water. Add yeast. Ferment at 22C.

YUM!

 

[RobH]

Thanks for all the replies and recipes for dark ales that do taste good.

I made this particular brew without any additions for a couple of reasons...
* Use of our kitchen area for brewing beer is presently a contentious topic - so the less time I am in the kitchen the better
* ... I like to steep grains, but that takes extra time ... time to steep, time sitting the fermenter in a tub of ice to cool it down to pitching temp ... see first point on time
* making a kit for the first time without fiddling too much with it can tell you alot about the kit as a "base" for improvement - sometimes the base needs little or no improvement ... sometimes it tells you not to waste any further time with it and move on
* if it turned out to my liking, then I would have discovered a reliable dark beer that is simple to brew -

any kit is going to be bland unfortunatly whtout the addition of some specialties, <snip>

I beg to differ there ... maybe most kits, but not all of them ... I recently made a Coopers English Bitter with just 1.5kg of LDM & Morgans Ale yeast - one of the simplest no-fuss brews I have done - primary for a week, racked it to a secondary for a week, stuck it in fridge for a day & then bulk primed (racked again) & bottled - and it turned out fantastic! I imagine with a FG of 1023 helped give it good body & bulk priming for low carbonation means that when I pour it, it settles in the glass like a Kilkenny - not as slowly as a Kilkeny - but still fun to watch that creamy head develop on top. And the flavour is just right of this style of beer IMO. ... Oh I almost forgot ... I did experiment slightly with this one ... I put about half a teaspoon of cinnamon in the bottom of the fermenter before any other ingredients went in ... such a small amount I don't think it made any impression ... but I'd rather no discernable impression than an overpowering one.

Anyway, I guess my goal is to have a repertoire of "special" beers that I can do well, but take a bit more time and effort, and a repertoire of reliable standards that I can do which ideally I can grab all or most ingredients off the shelf locally, and brew up with relative ease & minimal grief from my "significant other"

 

[WSC]

You can cold steep overnight in the fridge can't you? But I think you need to boil it, well I would. So maybe ignore that.

The simplest way to add hops is the tea bag from the LHBS, Drop it in boiling water and away you go.

I personally would use the morgans kits if you just want to do the kits without many bits. Bit more expensive but worth it. The Coopers Bitter is one of my favs too.

 

[Franko]

Thanks for all the replies and recipes for dark ales that do taste good.

I made this particular brew without any additions for a couple of reasons...
* Use of our kitchen area for brewing beer is presently a contentious topic - so the less time I am in the kitchen the better
* ... I like to steep grains, but that takes extra time ... time to steep, time sitting the fermenter in a tub of ice to cool it down to pitching temp ... see first point on time
* making a kit for the first time without fiddling too much with it can tell you alot about the kit as a "base" for improvement - sometimes the base needs little or no improvement ... sometimes it tells you not to waste any further time with it and move on
* if it turned out to my liking, then I would have discovered a reliable dark beer that is simple to brew -



I beg to differ there ... maybe most kits, but not all of them ... I recently made a Coopers English Bitter with just 1.5kg of LDM & Morgans Ale yeast - one of the simplest no-fuss brews I have done - primary for a week, racked it to a secondary for a week, stuck it in fridge for a day & then bulk primed (racked again) & bottled - and it turned out fantastic! I imagine with a FG of 1023 helped give it good body & bulk priming for low carbonation means that when I pour it, it settles in the glass like a Kilkenny - not as slowly as a Kilkeny - but still fun to watch that creamy head develop on top. And the flavour is just right of this style of beer IMO. ... Oh I almost forgot ... I did experiment slightly with this one ... I put about half a teaspoon of cinnamon in the bottom of the fermenter before any other ingredients went in ... such a small amount I don't think it made any impression ... but I'd rather no discernable impression than an overpowering one.

Anyway, I guess my goal is to have a repertoire of "special" beers that I can do well, but take a bit more time and effort, and a repertoire of reliable standards that I can do which ideally I can grab all or most ingredients off the shelf locally, and brew up with relative ease & minimal grief from my "significant other"

FG of 1023 are you sure you let it ferment right out ????

 

[RobH]

FG of 1023 are you sure you let it ferment right out ????

Yes I am pretty sure it was done... I wasn't sure at first, that's the reason I racked it to a secondary after a week ... moved it to a warmer part of the house (from 20c to about 24c) and it dropped from 1025 to 1023 and didn't drop any further. Bottled mid December. My bottles didn't explode ... even in the really hot days in Dec/Jan ... and they remain to this day, low carbonated - taste great too!

I put the high FG down to the addition of 1.5kg of LDM, and filling the fermenter to 18 litres instead of 23.

 

[Nick JD]

Unless your kitchen comes to you free - raise hell about not being able to use it for brewing.

 

[RobH]

Unless your kitchen comes to you free - raise hell about not being able to use it for brewing.

Hmmm very good point ... If I want to get technical about it, I own the kitchen B)

 

[manticle]

You can cold steep overnight in the fridge can't you? But I think you need to boil it,

Yes to both of those.

Cold steeping of specialty grains is possible and liquid resulting from grain steeping or mashing needs to be boiled.

 

[Fourstar]

I beg to differ there ... maybe most kits, but not all of them ... I recently made a Coopers English Bitter with just 1.5kg of LDM & Morgans Ale yeast - one of the simplest no-fuss brews I have done - primary for a week, racked it to a secondary for a week, stuck it in fridge for a day & then bulk primed (racked again) & bottled - and it turned out fantastic!

Well i must say i havnt done a kit in a few years but i do believe the new Coopers ESB kit has crystal malt in it which may also be the encounter with flavour that you have noticed

My only gripe with kits is 9/10 they are hopped with isohop and have no hop flavour or aroma.

Anyway... bay to my AGs

 

[RobboMC]

I made this particular brew without any additions for a couple of reasons...
* Use of our kitchen area for brewing beer is presently a contentious topic - so the less time I am in the kitchen the better
* ... I like to steep grains, but that takes extra time ... time to steep, time sitting the fermenter in a tub of ice to cool it down to pitching temp ... see first point on time
* making a kit for the first time without fiddling too much with it can tell you alot about the kit as a "base" for improvement - sometimes the base needs little or no improvement ... sometimes it tells you not to waste any further time with it and move on
* if it turned out to my liking, then I would have discovered a reliable dark beer that is simple to brew -

, and brew up with relative ease & minimal grief from my "significant other"

Time, time, time, and the old "significant other", the Nemesis's of all great brewing.
I have the same issues and in response to a suggestion from another brewer that bottles full of mediocre beer were better than empty bottles I knocked this up one evening while I was looking after the kids.

1 can Cooeprs dark Ale
1 kg Brew Enhancer 2
0.5 kg Morgans Roasted Black Liquid Malt ( yes I couldn't help myself )

Dump into fermenter with 3 litres boiling water, stir and top up.

The whole thing including cleaning up took 20 minutes. I even burnt some incense to mask the smell of malt that
pervaded the house.

The beer turned out remarkably well and was quite nice for a straight kit.

With hindsight, a packet of hops chucked in with the kit would have taken zero extra time and provided extra aroma.

If time is such as issue, cool the fermenter to only 30 deg C, add a block of clean ice, pitch yeast
and allow the ice to melt during the first few hours before fermentaing begins.

'significant other" also said I shouldn't brew while I am baby-sitting as I can't do it properly, and said brewer replied,
" That's right, might stuff the brewing up!"

 

[mfdu]

+1 on the coopers dark kit - i generally do it with 1kg saunders malt and some aroma hops. i have yet to try with an addition of 500g of honey, but i will soon.

the kit is pretty bitter, so dont make the mistake i've made in the past of not cooling it quick enough thus causing the aroma hops to turn to bittering . . .

to avoid this, i fill the clean / sanitised fermentr with 15 litres of cold water. then, once the hops have had their 5 mins or whatever in the hot wort, i dump them over to the cold water to snap cool them.



i've been able to prove to SWMBO that i can get a brew down in 30 mins (+ clean-up) and i can bottle in 90 mins (four discrete stages - bottle sanitise, bottle prime, bottle fill, bottle cap) and still be 'on call' with the baby.

i have not yet primed the baby, nor changed the bottles nappy.

 

[Mickthe]

Made the same kit for my second brew and was really thin with no aroma, flavour, and just a slight roasted taste.

Best way to improve any dark ale tin in a timely manner is to use a Fuggles/Goldings Hop Teabag, ditch most of the dextrose, and brew down to 20 litres.

IMO adding flavour/aroma hops and ditching the dextrose improved my beer 50%. (Apart from lower ferment temps but that is a given)

Mick.