Kit Brewers... Input

[Milky11111]

Agree @ all who said directions.

I wish the little booklet said more about temperature when I put on my first batch. I would rather stress all week about it staying cool and having a nice drop to drink afterwards then not worrying about it and having to drink terrible beer.

For absolute fool proof instructions though I'd make some instructional videos and include links on your can/booklet (we did this with a product for a company I used to work at it was a great success), nearly everyone has the internet in this day and age, and if they don't they know someone that does. Yeah there is a lot of videos on youtube, but many of these are bad or imperial. Think of it as setting a trap, if they make a good brew they will keep brewing, I know many people who gave it up simply because of misinformation.

 

[boingk]

I'd make some instructional videos and include links on your can/booklet

Good idea! All it would take it a YouTube channel under the brand name of the kits and a link cited in the instructions. Make up a good procedural video and let 'em at it. I remember getting a similar thing with my first brewing purchase - a Tooheys Brewing Kit. It came with a small DVD disc that showed (basically) how to brew your own beer, as well as a bit about the Tooheys brewing plant. Wasn't terribly informative but it was better than nothing. I'm sure a video made by an avid homebrewer would be of great help to the new brewer.

Cheers - boingk

 

[PMyers]

i have nothing to do with Wals concentrates but for K&K they are hard to beat

Yes... yes they are Exceptional brews, those.

Fresh Wort Kits. 6L concentrated partial ones.

At this stage of the game fresh wort kits won't be on offer, but time may change this...

Hoppy APA, AAA, AIPA. I wish these had existed when I K&K'd - I'd have been introduced to the world of hopheadedness a lot sooner.

I have some highly hopped formulae earmarked already, including a double APA inspired by Hop Knot I tried from Two Peaks (or is that Three Peaks?) when visiting Scottsdale Arizona. There is also a very hoppy and bitter pilsner, and a souped-up IPA

I have always thought it would be a good idea to offer a complete kits & bits package to emulate each state's "Best in Show" or a range of popular style winners from the AABC results. Include the goop, finishing hops, spec grain and dry yeast so Kitsters can have a crack at a winning style without tryig to work out which grains to buy themselves.

I have toyed with this idea as well, but since I plan on selling these kits online initially I think I will add a section on the site that deals with this, and offers a kit and appropriate malt blend and hops, in a package price.

A good product at a reasonable price

That's the idea Whilst I will be offering several ranges (at present two 1.7 or 2 kilo ranges and three or four 3kg ranges) these will likely retail anywhere from the $16 mark up to $45 or even more, depending on the total weight of ingredients. Of course the more expensive kits currently contain 3kg of malt, anywhere up to 140g of hops (remember the hoppy brews I mentioned earlier?) and up to 400g of grain, plus yeast. I brewed an incredible amount of beer when I was in the industry, and these are some of my very best formulations. You get what you pay for, I guess, and I have no doubt that sales for the more pricey kits will never match the lower cost ranges... I just love 'em too much not to make them available for those that want to try them.

Most new brewers start with the idea of making their favourite commercial drop at half the price.

This is an idea I think I will add to the section on the website I mentioned earlier. The company I worked for previously utilised this option in store handout leaflets, and on their website, to great effect.

Sadly most commercial drops in Australia are thin tan lagers. Good decent malty ales and porters, hoppy IPA's and
flavoursome browns would keep more brewers as they would be just blown away by the quality of their first batch.

And have BREW AT 20 DEGREES stamped across the top of every tin. ( except the pilsener of course which would have 13 degrees written on it )

Agreed! I will definitely mark the labels with an APPROPRIATE brewing temperature. When I started in the industry most of our customers were still coming in complaining after they had brewed their beer at thirty degrees, sitting on top of the hot water heater. It was a long, uphill battle trying to change this mindset, and I feel that better instructions, along with forums like this, have aided enormously. There's no way I'll be adding to the high-temperature delusion forced down the throats of many new brewers.

Good idea! All it would take it a YouTube channel under the brand name of the kits and a link cited in the instructions. Make up a good procedural video and let 'em at it.

I had thought of creating a video and placing it on the site, but after reading this I think a YouTube channel would be a much better idea for many reasons... more coverage / advertising potential being just one of them! At least with that I could host a series of videos covering many topics including grain steeping, hop additions, yeast choice etc... Not just a good idea, that one - a GREAT idea.


I think at this point I want to add that I won't just be selling these kits through my website. The website sales are simply a way to get the product out to the customers, without breaking the bank so to speak. I have a great idea, a great product and brand, and have little doubt the kits will be well recieved, but I have spent long enough in the industry to know what happens when a HBS over-reaches financially. If I release these kits, it will be done so with humble beginnings. I will plan on eventually selling these kits wholesale through HBS, for no other reason that to support these guys and the services they offer to the home brew community. I feel that there is no greater benefit than to be able to go in to your local HBS and rabbit-on about beer and brewing, and in creating my brand and selling it initially online, I don't wish to take anything away from them. They are becoming a rarity and should be cherished.

Thanks everyone for your thoughts and ideas. I will keep you all posted on the progress.

Cheers,
Pete

 

[PMyers]

Another issue I wish to discuss with you guys... I have a few kits in my 3kg boil range that only make 12 litres, such as the Imperial Stout and Scotch Ale. Now while I and several mates I brew with are more than happy to spend $40 or so on 12 litres of great beer, I was wondering what the general consensus was with this? I know a brand out there produce a scotch ale and a barley wine that make half-brews, but these are fairly poor representations of their style, and you generally need to toucan them or add a whole heap of malt and hops to get the desired result, making the cost comparable to a good 3kg kit anyway. Would the typical homebrewer be interested in spending such an amount on a half-sized brew? Should I instead look at making 4kg (2 x 2kg, boxed) kits, similar to the Muntons high-range brands, thus bumping the final volume up to 15 litres? Of course this means the price could go up to $50+... I for one think most dedicated homebrewers can see the value in $40 for 12 litres of a beer style that normally sells for $10 + per small bottle at the bottlo.

If you can let me know what you guys would opt for, that would be great

Cheers,
Pete

 

[Pistol]

I wouldn't mind the small 12L batchs, but would prefer 15L especially if it's a nice drop, that way hopefully some get to age a little in the bottle before I drink them!

When are you starting? I like the sound of the scottch ale.

 

[Gormand]

$40 for a half batch is a fair chunk of change. I have no doubt that its a damn nice drop but I feel that it would only be picked up by people with a little more money to throw around.

I think as long as you have enough of the ones at the lower end of the price range to balence out the upper end you should be ok, some people will always give it a shot and repeat business and word of mouth should do the rest for it. Others will be tempted to try it if the cheaper ones are to their tastes as well. Starting at the $16 mark which you stated above is a great place to be, they will be your key sellers and lead people into your more expensive ones.

 

[Jake.v]

15L for $50 is good value if they are a killer drop

 

[Nick JD]

You could sell a 19L pot, some swiss voile, a thermometer, 3.5kg of base and spec grain, 30g of hops, Fermentis yeast - and include a booklet that has a step by step guide on how to make beer that tastes better than stuff you can buy in the bottlo.

Introductory batch is 19L of 4.5% American Pale Ale.

For $100.

But that's not what you are asking so I'll shut up now.

 

[keifer33]

Sounds like your onto something and have spent a bit of time thinking about it. As far as 12 of batches if of makes.good beer there will be a market out there but not as big as the $16 market.

 

[kuzzy]

My 2c worth

Id be interested in a quality K&K that makes 23 to 25L batch with good yeast. While I have most stuff for all grain I dont have the time to do it and finish making the setup. I would be happy to order online and have it delivered to the door in a box, tin and fermentable stuff at the most dry hop tea bag / hop pellets with bloody good instructions. In any event it must have the KISS principle (Keep It Simple Stupid).

I think most K&K brewers would like a quality kit in which we dont have to add extras (already blended / added in the can) and would be happy to pay a bit extra for it if I could taste the value say $20 to $30, but not mega bucks like $50.

I would not be interested in 15L final volumes as I keg 19L, and now mostly do double batch of 46 to 50L as I am time poor.

Kuzzy

 

[PMyers]

Thanks all for your input. I'll keep you all posted on the progress.

Cheers,
Pete

 

[TmC]

I agree, when i started off i was interested in making my favourite commercial beer but was told not to. Being a newbie brewer myself i have found that all, if not most of the kits are designed to make inferior quality beers to the less informed. For instance, a Coopers Stout kit isn't going to taste as good as a Coopers Best Extra Stout if you follow the instructions, i feel that Coopers intend this otherwise they would be losing some serious cash if everyone was home brewing. That is why like many others have mentioned instead of just adding 1kg of dextrose or BE1/2 as most kits do add some real ingredients and instructions like you said, grain, hops, good yeast, proper temp control etc. If you can put all those into a kit and have it at a reasonable price (still cheaper than buying commercial grog) than i am pretty sure you will have some interest.

My 2 cents.

 

[DUANNE]

like a black pilsner for example?

would that be anything like a swchwarzbier?

on the idea of the twelve litre brews for the high gravity type beers my feeling is that by the time a brewer has the airation and fermentation procceses in place for a large beer such as a barley wine then they also have probably long since moved into full extract or ag brewing.it is easy to underattenuate a big beer or to make unpalatable rocket fuel if you havent got everything down pat, so its maybe not something to be offering beginners if your trying to get more poeple engaged in the hobby for the long term?

 

[time01]

I would buy the 12l brews if they were different and superb.

I'm happy to shell out money if the quality is there.

 

[Swinging Beef]

I like the idea of multi skill level based "What Next?" on the instructions.

eg: So.. you have done this kit a few times but would like to be more adventurous?
Want more hop aroma?
Want more body in your beer?
Want to increase the ABV and still have it taste great?

 

[ploto]

my 2c

I would be interested in 3kg kits if the price falls between $30 - $40. For that I would want an extract that has grains and hops added to a particular style (seasonal would be great) and which makes a good beer as is, while still leaving room for me to add my own extras should I desire. If it starts costing much more than that I would be thinking why not just get a full fresh wort kit and be done with it. $45 max for a special beer would be my limit.

No need to supply any yeast if you are aiming at the slightly more advanced kit brewer and selling the kits through HBS, but make it clear it isn't included. I think it would be better to suggest a recommended type on your kit, ie. "we recommend an ale yeast such as US05 or S04", than to have a repackaged one on the kit. This suggests a more professional product and encourages the kit brewer to learn a bit more about the brewing process. If you tell people you don't supply yeast because you can't guarantee freshness or proper storage then most will value your opinion for being honest about it. After all it is the mystery yeast of dubious quality that detracts from many of the existing commercial kits.

Likewise you needn't add a packet of hops, rather suggest some types that may be used for dry hopping, again with clear instructions "If you wish to increase hop flavour add dry hops when ferment slows, we suggest amarillo for this kit" or whatever. Also I would be impressed if you tell us what hops have been used in the kit already so I can use that knowledge to choose what to compliment it with. This is one of my main gripes with coopers etc, that they are vague at best in telling you what's in it. As everyone else says you need to have clear instructions for further improvements or additions that can be made to the kit, something just a little bit more detailed than the coopers "we recommend be1" blurb.

Keep the core range limited to the more popular mainstream styles to start with (corona springs to mind) and expand with seasonal varieties and you could be onto a winner.

 

[Jake.v]

maybe like the BE1, BE2 have something along those lines but with packs with yeast,,malts, hops, sugars then they can choose from say beer pack 1,2,3,4,5 all with diffrent combos then once they have got a tastes of different hops they can start to make up their own packs to suit their tastes

 

[rendo]

Hey Pete,

Any news mate? How is the progress?

Rendo

Thanks all for your input. I'll keep you all posted on the progress.

Cheers,
Pete