Kit Brew Temp

[bum]

At least Fasty had aircon

Chortled.

 

[bignath]

At least Fasty had aircon

And 9 fermenters or something...

 

[manticle]

I have no major wish to be antagonistic. It's mildly boring on the internet when we can't punch each other or shag each others' girlfriends out of spite.

therefore - relax on the defensiveness and consider this:

A new brewer (either the OP or a brewer reading and not posting) sees this:

I brew Coopers kits at 28C - 30C all the time. At least ten batches recently. I think I've brewed every single one of their ale kits at least once (no lager, for obvious reasons). I've never had a bad batch, ever. I've brewed the Pale Ale many times at those temperatures. It's important to keep the brew in primary for at least a couple weeks so the yeast can eat off any byproducts.

They may, quite easily assume from that that the reason their beer is a fruity mess has nothing to do with the fact that they pitched and fermented at 28.

You have added qualifiers and they help me understand your perspective but not everyone, especially not noobs, will see and recognise that.

A person who has made exactly one brew might simply read your statement as '30 degrees is fine. I make beer at 30, it all tastes great' then wonder why theirs doesn't.

I have no wish to make you feel small nor suggest that you shouldn't make a contribution but please consider the intention of my post and please consider how your posts may be read by new brewers. People take **** they read here for gospel (**** knows why) so you need to take some responsibility over what you write. You may get it wrong - I have/do often but try as best as you can and when someone suggests you are off the mark, at least consider what they are saying.

Beer may not be chuckable at 28, (style dependent as mentioned) but neither is a burnt sausage chuckable, (taste dependent). Wouldn't suggest to someone wanting to cook a good sausage that burning it works out A-OK.

Yeast will not eat the results of a hot ferment by the way. That's not opinion.

 

[slash22000]

I will be more careful with posting in the future. I guess I assumed my low forum rank would make it clear that I'm not an professional brewer or expert or something. Dunno. I put stuff in things and get beer. I don't hate it. I quite enjoy it, actually. Maybe I have a ****** up palette? Who knows.

 

[bum]

I put stuff in things and get beer.

Ah, the miracle of life!

I'll take back the "*******" stuff and apologise for it, mate, but the 30C thing way beyond reasonable. It is absolutely indefensible with lid yeast.

 

[manticle]

I will be more careful with posting in the future. I guess I assumed my low forum rank would make it clear that I'm not an professional brewer or expert or something. Dunno. I put stuff in things and get beer. I don't hate it. I quite enjoy it, actually. Maybe I have a ****** up palette? Who knows.

other people with your level of experience or less will assume you KNOW the answers if you don't make it clearer. Nothing wrong with being clear. Don't take it as an insult (unless you are sensitive in which case get ******).

Not saying don't post - just consider what you post and how it may be read by others of varying levels of experience.

And try and get your beer cooler. It will be the best thing you could have done..

 

[pk.sax]

works out A-OK.

Damn TV

 

[jaypes]

I managed to get the temp down to 20 overnight on concrete floor and wet towels.
Cheers for all the tips

 

[hoppy2B]

As far as I'm aware, wort needs to contain organic acids in order for esters to form.

 

[Nick JD]

As far as I'm aware, wort needs to contain organic acids in order for esters to form.

Acetic acid is a good one.

 

[geneabovill]

OP: before the wonderful purchase of temp controlled fridge, I sat my fermenter in a huge esky full of water, a small aquarium pump to move the water around, a couple of bottles of ice and a fan blowing over it. Worked a treat, but the dog kept drinking the water.

This should keep it at a steady 16 - 18C, IIRC.

 

[hoppy2B]

Acetic acid is a good one.

Is that your secret Nick, tipping a little vinegar into your ferment vessel?

 

[jaypes]

Just an update. Cracked the first bottle of this brew after a long day concreting and was well surprised on how it turned out - even with carb drops

My bro in-law was well chuffed and wants me to make him a Staropramen clone (any recipes welcome)

 

[wyane]

Just an update. Cracked the first bottle of this brew after a long day concreting and was well surprised on how it turned out - even with carb drops

My bro in-law was well chuffed and wants me to make him a Staropramen clone (any recipes welcome)

Well done. I only use wet towels myself (and the weather forecast) for my kit brews. Have hit the high twenties on occasion but won't say they were good beers in case I insinuate possession of knowledge of what a good beer is when I just don't :chug:

 

[Juzdu]

I've only been reading up on home brewing for a month, and certainly don't subscribe to the "noobs take everything they read on this site as gospel" argument. I don't think you're giving people enough credit....the vast majority aren't stupid, and will in fact be smart enough to know they're reading opinions, not facts. And those who do take it for gospel are dumb enough to deserve what they get.

That being said, I do give a lot more credit to practical examples, i.e. somebody asking a question about brewing temps that gets a reply that says "I've fermented many brews at temp x and the result was y" is a much more useful response than someone saying "You can't get good beer brewing over temp x".

The latter tells you nothing...it could be a novice regurgitating something they heard or read somewhere...or it could be a long time brewer speaking from experience. But unless they back it up with the facts, its best taken with a grain of salt.

I understand the AHB'ers out there who've posted thousands of messages on this forum are probably tired of saying "Mate when I first started out I didn't pay much attention to temperature control, and my first few brews were in the high 20's. I drank the beer, and thought it was ok at the time, but once I started keeping the temps steady in the low 20's my results improved significantly". THAT is the sort of info "noobs" can really find useful.

 

[wyane]

THAT is the sort of info "noobs" can really find useful.

totally agree. Not much could misconstrued as gospel. It's obvious who the beer gods are on here and their knowledge is great.

I can't think of a better analogy (and not saying this always happens here BTW) but imagine if you bought a weight bench and weights and the online community suggested that if you weren't on the juice and trying to look like the Terminator then you're doing it all wrong.

I can't offer (much) evidence out of the back of a truck, but I like extract beer. It's easy and cheap and tastes great enough 99% of the time. In the scheme of things the sample size of people who have tasted my piss is small but they seem to like it. No, it's not craft beer and won't win awards but there you go. Brew up, drink up and :beerbang:

 

[Stout75]

I live and brew in Darwin. Anything from kits to AG depending on time availability, as I am in the defence force. For MY Pale Ales, Stouts I brew all year round in 26-30+ deg. What I've found to be critical is the initial wort temp at pitching time. I try to aim for 20-23 deg, then allow them to come to ambient temp by themselves. This procedure has produced some very good beer. Lagers, well I will only attempt them in the dry season when I know I can rely on low overnight temps and the use of water baths during the day.Just my 2cents and opinions/results on tropical brewing. By the way i have been brewing for 20+ years before anyone makes any wise cracks.

 

[bum]

I don't think anyone is disputing the difficulties faced by those brewing in the tropics.

However, fermenting with the vast majority of yeasts at 30C makes **** beer. No question. You can drink it and like and that is awesome and all that but it is still very much less than ideal. I've been telling people they are wrong for 30+ years before anyone wants to make any wisecracks.

 

[Don Runk]

Here's a wild car for you.

I'm a Noob as in i have only brewed 12-13 batches (all 50l though) and i have tried kit yeast warm, kit yeast cold and us-05 temp controlled to a point of a degree with a PID...

and i honestly prefer (as do those who drink my beer as i have a bit of it) the kit yeast a little on the warm side. (albeit with my current methods)

so it comes down to taste and the taste of those who are drinking it.

In time i and many other "noobs" may learn to turn their noses up at high ferm temps and kit yeasts. But this "hobby" is a progressive thing both in terms of technique of brewing and in developing tastes of beer and opinions on tastes for that matter.

 

[bum]

and i honestly prefer (as do those who drink my beer as i have a bit of it) the kit yeast a little on the warm side.

That's as it should be but if you're suggesting that 30C is a "little on the high side" your connection with reality is tenuous at best. Someone likes 21-ish instead of the dogmatic 18 that is spouted? Fine. 30C makes only **** beer (most yeasts, blahblahblah).

But this "hobby" is a progressive thing both in terms of technique of brewing and in developing tastes of beer and opinions on tastes for that matter.

Yes and the progression has been that temp control produces better beer than hot ferments (usual exceptions, blahblahblah).

 

[Don Runk]

never mentioned an actual temp if you noticed. Because that is my taste and not what is commonly called "correct" but no it wasn't as high as 30c more like 24-26c. I also use Galaxy hops so fruity may be my and my mates "style". Don't assume that everyone's taste does not include a fruity flavor.

But noobs need to progress no? as in noobs progress toward better fermentation temperature control. Not start that way.
As in - noobs progress toward better temp control - IF that is the taste THEY prefer.?? or am i wrong somewhere?

there is plenty of info on too high a temp and a simple search will result in pros and cons. but some peoples cons are others pros. I'm sure mostly because the noob palate hasn't yet reached a beer judge's.

if they like it let them drink it. Period.

 

[bum]

never mentioned an actual temp if you noticed.

I noticed it well which is why I made this distinction.

Because that is my taste and not what is commonly called "correct" but no it wasn't as high as 30c more like 24-26c. I also use Galaxy hops so fruity may be my and my mates "style". Don't assume that everyone's taste does not include a fruity flavor.

You should see the amount of late US hops I through at pretty much every beer I make. Defending 30c as pushing "fruity" is not really defensible.

But noobs need to progress no?

Yes, and they won't if morons tell them 30C is cool.

IF that is the taste THEY prefer.?? or am i wrong somewhere?

If you're saying that makes it okay to tell people that brewing at 30C is fine then, yes, you are really, really wrong somewhere (around about the 30C mark, I'd say).

there is plenty of info on too high a temp and a simple search will result in pros and cons.

There are no pros (unless you're in a hurry and used to mineral turpentine). The cons? Well, n00bs don't search for those.

but some peoples cons are others pros.

Some people are wrong and they can continue to wallow in their ignorance and I will be quite happy so long as they don't try to convert anyone else.

if they like it let them drink it. Period.

I'm not trying to stop anyone from drinking **** beer (LCPA aside h34r: ) but I will try to stop a person who constantly failed to attain any degree of 'clue'.
(not you, you're being more than reasonable) from trying to corrupt broadly accepted (and correct) brewing knowledge.

 

[GuyQLD]

But noobs need to progress no? as in noobs progress toward better fermentation temperature control. Not start that way.
As in - noobs progress toward better temp control - IF that is the taste THEY prefer.?? or am i wrong somewhere?

When I started I was brewing in the cupboard. In summer. 30'c Kit yeasts. I can tell you they were not great. I moved onto US 05 in a "swamp" cooler type arrangement. That was an improvement. I now have a temp controlled fridge and still use US 05 a lot.

I can tell you right now that even in a fairly clean profile yeast like US 05 there are subtle differences at even 18 vs 24-26'C (What I got with my esky/ice).

There are already so many variables you're trying to keep a track of in making a great beer that if you have the means, there really isn't an excuse for not focusing on your fermentation temps. Understandably I had to make do with an esky/ice bath for a while and I had to make the best of it - I'm not going to poo poo on anyone else in the same boat. You do the best you can with what's available to you at the time. But even that was an improvement over ambient temps (Yes - 30'C) but if you ever get the opportunity to go to a thermo controlled fridge, it's one of the best effort / reward changes you can make.

And I don't honestly think anyone should start at 30'C and add more complexity just as a learning exercise. This is not really a subjective matter, temp control is important.

Now if you want to debate different styles at different temps, well then you can start being subjective. But by then we'd be way off topic.

 

[Don Runk]

To be clear.
I do not ferment at 30c nor do i think it's good practice or should be said to anyone that it is good practice. and no one has. or ever will i hope.

my point is this - if slash has no way of controlling temp and managed to make a beer he considered to be a good drop at 30c then good for him. He will probably over time develop whatever method to get temp down and produce a beer he thinks is much better. (i also hope)

no one has ever argued the need for better fermentation control. (esp not I. I use a PID i'm that worried about it)

the OP was worried if he ruined his batch with too high a temp. Slash shared what he did and it was valid to the OP's concerns. If i was the op i would want to hear story's like Slash's to reassure me i haven't ruined a batch too much. The OP obviously realized that 24-26c was too high otherwise he wouldn't have posted.

Calling people that share their views and methods F-wits and the like only discourage people from participating in conversation and sharing info that could be helpful to others.

Chill out. (to around 18c perhaps?)

 

[wyane]

Calling people that share their views and methods F-wits and the like only discourage people from participating in conversation and sharing info that could be helpful to others.

Chill out. (to around 18c perhaps?)

beat me to it. absolutely agree. Isn't posting in a way that discourages community exchange just as likely to cause people to continue with non-standard methods and possibly leave this forum and brewing altogether?

Sarcasm is accepted if that's the most expansive form of wit that you can afford. But being uncivil is just ****.

Happy Days!

edit: dodgy phrasing

 

[pcmfisher]

The length of time someone has been doing something has no bearing on whether its right or wrong.

When the only reason for doing something is "Thats how I've always done it for the last 20 years", well, thats just ignorant.

 

[bum]

If i was the op i would want to hear story's like Slash's to reassure me i haven't ruined a batch too much.

Calling people that share their views and methods F-wits and the like only discourage people from participating in conversation and sharing info that could be helpful to others.

These are both the underlying issues of why I continue to push this particular barrow.

The first issue is that new brewers should not be encouraged to follow really, really bad practise - not just OP but also anyone who stumbles upon this thread. Some people have to live with such practise and if they can then more power to them but don't tell people that it is okay to ferment at 30 bloody degrees C with your average ale yeast.

The second issue is that I'd really, really like to discourage people who insist that really, really bad practise is okay from doing so if they present them without caveat.

I'd like to apologise to the lady who felt the need to report me for a swear-word.

 

[slash22000]

Crikey. Apparently this thread is still raging. :huh:

1) I'd just like to mention, again, my exact original statement was:

Does good temperature control gives you better beer? Absolutely. Does no temperature control mean undrinkable horse piss? No (for ales anyway).

As per a month ago when this first came up, I did not say (nor mean to say) "Please ferment at 30C it will make fantastic beer". The original question was, "My beer was at 26C is it spoiled", "spoiled" in my mind meaning utterly undrinkable, and the answer (from my experience) is, "No". That is all.

2) To clarify, again, please do not ever ferment beer at high temperatures if you can avoid doing so (unless instructed by the manufacturer of some specialty yeasts designed for styles brewed at those temperatures).

In the month since the **** hit the fan, I finally managed to get a cheap chest freezer from Gumtree (as I have been attempting to do for a long time) and as of today have been waiting 4 god damn weeks for an STC-1000 to arrive (starting to think it is lost in the mail, I am completely out of beer at this point). So, I will no longer be fermenting at tropical temperatures, nor should anybody else if they can possibly avoid it.

Beer good. Heat bad. h34r:

 

[nofixedaddress]

@slash2200 and Stout75

I have recently moved to Cairns.

Bought a Brewmaster Kit, locally, with Morgans and 'threw' it together the other night....Wednesday 21st at 6pm was completion.

And it is not responding as I would normally expect.

Temperature of the brew is way above what I am used to at 28-30 (I'm a blow in from down South although I will be here for some time).

What I would like to know from you guys is what brands you have found work best over in Darwin.

And maybe there needs to be a separate thread for Brewing Beer in the Tropics.

I know that there are East Asian yeasts that have been developed for tropical brewing but I do not know where to access them.

Anyway...all the best and if you ever get to Cairns I will shout you a beer.

Cheers