Kettle Contents To Cube.

[Silver]

Was wondering if any punters (as part of their standard procedure) dump entire contents of kettle into cube at flameout instead of whirl-pooling,waiting to settle etc. My research of late, and my early days getting into BIAB where everything was left in the pot to cool overnight, has led me to try this today with 28 litres from the urn and only about 100ml waste. I'm expecting a shitload of trub but plan to dump the lot into the fermenter. I have read so much info from all the different sides regarding hot and cold break that I figure it's time to review my brewing procedures with my set up.
Cheers
Silver

 

[bignath]

Was wondering if any punters (as part of their standard procedure) dump entire contents of kettle into cube at flameout instead of whirl-pooling,waiting to settle etc. My research of late, and my early days getting into BIAB where everything was left in the pot to cool overnight, has led me to try this today with 28 litres from the urn and only about 100ml waste. I'm expecting a shitload of trub but plan to dump the lot into the fermenter. I have read so much info from all the different sides regarding hot and cold break that I figure it's time to review my brewing procedures with my set up.
Cheers
Silver

I've never deliberately transferred the entire contents post boil to my cube, but i am aware of some of the kettle trub going into my cube as i try to get the last little morsel of wort out.

I reckon i probably leave behind 1-2lt's of "stuff" in my kettle, most of which is obviously crap. Maybe i lose 500ml of actual wort.

Then as i transfer from cube to fermenter, i throw it all in. Every last little drop i can get out. Cold break, hop material etc....it all goes into the fermenter.

No noticeable negative effects.

Interested in the results you get from taking the hot break too.

 

[stux]

I've never deliberately transferred the entire contents post boil to my cube, but i am aware of some of the kettle trub going into my cube as i try to get the last little morsel of wort out.

I reckon i probably leave behind 1-2lt's of "stuff" in my kettle, most of which is obviously crap. Maybe i lose 500ml of actual wort.

Then as i transfer from cube to fermenter, i throw it all in. Every last little drop i can get out. Cold break, hop material etc....it all goes into the fermenter.

No noticeable negative effects.

Interested in the results you get from taking the hot break too.

I've thrown all the rubbish in that settles at the bottom of the cube, including lots of hop matter when I've drained as much as I can.

You get a much more bitter final beer with serious hop-oiliness. Leave the trub behind and its not as bitter and doesn't have the same hop-oiliness. Some people like it oily

 

[Helles]

A bit OT
I whirlpool ,cool and tranfer to fermenter
The trub cone left i put 5 lt demijohn rack off the next day
Into 3lt juice bottle squeeze all the air out and freeze
Use it as starter for the next beer.
Boil and make starter as normal
Hadno problems with this

 

[Silver]

I use a hop sock for my kettle hop additions and just cubed the rest. Have had excellent results in the past. never had dramas with over bitterness or hop oiliness. I will post results as this reduces bruday by a good 1/2hr for me.

 

[Midnight Brew]

This thread has made me start to think I should modify my pickup tube to as close to the wall of the kettle as I can and then keep the left over wort for starters. Thanks gents. At the moment I think I would be losing 5 litres or trub/wort in total. Thats a good 2x 1 Litre starters there!

 

[Silver]

I've never deliberately transferred the entire contents post boil to my cube, but i am aware of some of the kettle trub going into my cube as i try to get the last little morsel of wort out.

I reckon i probably leave behind 1-2lt's of "stuff" in my kettle, most of which is obviously crap. Maybe i lose 500ml of actual wort.

Then as i transfer from cube to fermenter, i throw it all in. Every last little drop i can get out. Cold break, hop material etc....it all goes into the fermenter.

No noticeable negative effects.

Interested in the results you get from taking the hot break too.

Got to say, I am really impressed with this beer. I kegged/bottled a brew which was done the same way and enjoyed a few from the previous brew which had everything from kettle to cube to FV. If this one is as good as the last then it will remain my standard procedure.

 

[stux]

This thread has made me start to think I should modify my pickup tube to as close to the wall of the kettle as I can and then keep the left over wort for starters. Thanks gents. At the moment I think I would be losing 5 litres or trub/wort in total. Thats a good 2x 1 Litre starters there!

Just dump *all* the kettle dregs (trub, break, and all) into a 5L demijohn, throw that in your fridge.

The next day decant the clear liquid into a jug, pour into a ziplock bag... and freeze

I find I get about 30-50% recovery.

Just remember to boil it up when you make you starter

 

[CosmicBertie]

Was wondering if any punters (as part of their standard procedure) dump entire contents of kettle into cube at flameout instead of whirl-pooling,waiting to settle etc. My research of late, and my early days getting into BIAB where everything was left in the pot to cool overnight, has led me to try this today with 28 litres from the urn and only about 100ml waste. I'm expecting a shitload of trub but plan to dump the lot into the fermenter. I have read so much info from all the different sides regarding hot and cold break that I figure it's time to review my brewing procedures with my set up.
Cheers
Silver

Once my brew has chilled, I transfer everything into the fermentor. I use a hop-sock though, so no overly bitter brews, but IMO the hot and cold break dont really affect the beer. It all settles to the bottom and compacts down.

 

[mikec]

I was always of the understanding that the hot break is bad, cold break not so much.
Perhaps the experts / professionals on here can elaborate on the reasons and the facts.

 

[Crusty]

I was always of the understanding that the hot break is bad, cold break not so much.
Perhaps the experts / professionals on here can elaborate on the reasons and the facts.

I'm far from an expert & don't have the scientific facts to prove it but I no chill & get quite a bit of hot / cold break into my cube which all ends up in the fermenter. There was a bit of talk in the US about some All Grain Brewers that ran some trials of break material vs no break into the fermenter with some blind taste tests. It seems the break beers were better taste wise than the no break ones. My beers certainly haven't suffered from break material into my fermenter.

 

[mikec]

I'm far from an expert & don't have the scientific facts to prove it but I no chill & get quite a bit of hot / cold break into my cube which all ends up in the fermenter. There was a bit of talk in the US about some All Grain Brewers that ran some trials of break material vs no break into the fermenter with some blind taste tests. It seems the break beers were better taste wise than the no break ones. My beers certainly haven't suffered from break material into my fermenter.

I remember those trials too, and I'm pretty sure folk on here have done similar comparisons. But I'm pretty sure they were talking about cold break, not hot break.
With no chilling you still leave most of the hot break in the kettle.

 

[Markbeer]

In addition some ferment in their kettles and one brewer won a first in nationals in the states in the light lager category doing this- of course it depends on how clear your wort is going into the kettle. For me in biab this would be very hard.

 

[Silver]

I remember those trials too, and I'm pretty sure folk on here have done similar comparisons. But I'm pretty sure they were talking about cold break, not hot break.
With no chilling you still leave most of the hot break in the kettle.

I now empty entire contents of kettle to cube and again entire contents of cube into FV. Last 2 brews done this way have turned out to be crackers. When i think of it, this was exactly the same when i started with BIAB, the lot went in and they were great beers.

 

[CosmicBertie]

In addition some ferment in their kettles and one brewer won a first in nationals in the states in the light lager category doing this- of course it depends on how clear your wort is going into the kettle. For me in biab this would be very hard.

Odd. I use BrewBrite, if I whirlpool and leave the wort for 20mins it all completely settles out and the wort is absolutely clear. I still chuck everything in though. No point wasting any lurvely sugary wort.

My beers also come out clear and great tasting.

 

[mckenry]

I just want to point out a couple of differences which *should* be understood.

All the crap in the kettle includes hot break.
All the crap in the cube includes cold break. [unless of course youre dumping entire kettle into cube]

Cold break into the fermenter is OK
Hot break in the fermenter can cause astringency.

** I have no real world experience with trying all kettle into the cube, then into the fermenter, so possibly you might think I have no cred here.
I always left the hot break in the kettle, as per my learnings.

Some posters have said they do it and the beer is fine, even a "first in nations in the states" but I go by the wisdom of the professionals that tell me to leave it out.

 

[mckenry]

Odd. I use BrewBrite, if I whirlpool and leave the wort for 20mins it all completely settles out and the wort is absolutely clear. I still chuck everything in though. No point wasting any lurvely sugary wort.

My beers also come out clear and great tasting.

Dont waste brewbrite then. Its to separate that crap from your lovely clear wort, so you can leave it out.

 

[Markbeer]

Agreed. And fermenting in the kettle shouldn't make a difference in this situation if you are throwing hot break hops and all into the fermenter.

<blockquote class='ipsBlockquote'data-author="mckenry" data-cid="992536" data-time="1358830343"><p>
Dont waste brewbrite then. Its to separate that crap from your lovely clear wort, so you can leave it out.</p></blockquote>

 

[Markbeer]

Agreed. And fermenting in the kettle shouldn't make a difference in this situation if you are throwing hot break hops and all into the fermenter.

<blockquote class='ipsBlockquote'data-author="mckenry" data-cid="992536" data-time="1358830343"><p>
Dont waste brewbrite then. Its to separate that crap from your lovely clear wort, so you can leave it out.</p></blockquote>

 

[Silver]

I just want to point out a couple of differences which *should* be understood.

All the crap in the kettle includes hot break.
All the crap in the cube includes cold break. [unless of course youre dumping entire kettle into cube]

Cold break into the fermenter is OK
Hot break in the fermenter can cause astringency.

** I have no real world experience with trying all kettle into the cube, then into the fermenter, so possibly you might think I have no cred here.
I always left the hot break in the kettle, as per my learnings.

Some posters have said they do it and the beer is fine, even a "first in nations in the states" but I go by the wisdom of the professionals that tell me to leave it out.

Who are the professionals you're referring to?

 

[bum]

Commercial breweries (and non-commercial breweries for a very long time) have excluded hot break as it is known to have negative impact on stored beer.

 

[Endo]

I've always followed the guide I read for BIAB no-chilling and have always dumped it in straight from boiling in to the cube. Helps kill off nasties allegedly.

 

[Parks]

Dont waste brewbrite then. Its to separate that crap from your lovely clear wort, so you can leave it out.

It's not entirely wasted. My brews have dropped crystal clear after fermentation due to BrewBrite so I assume this would still happen.

(it's not just kettle finings)

 

[mckenry]

Cold break and hot break are easy.

Hot break is stuff that forms in your kettle, mostly protiens, that is created in the boil and is insoluable even at boiling temperatures. It forms chunks and falls to the bottom of your kettle. You do a whirlpool or let the wort settle - and you leave that stuff behind.

<snip>

TB

ThirstyBoy is a well respected professional brewer for a mega brewery. There are others, but this was result from my first search.

Who are the professionals you're referring to?

 

[mckenry]

It's not entirely wasted. My brews have dropped crystal clear after fermentation due to BrewBrite so I assume this would still happen.

(it's not just kettle finings)

Yes, but it still remains that excess trub can cause astringency problems. If you're not having this problem, then 'as you were'.
As a side note, there's even more crap to separate, if harvesting yeast slurry.

I still think its wasted as you can get clear beer with vitamin T anyway.

 

[Silver]

It seems no matter how much you research there are 2 camps re hot break into FV. A recent search suggested the HB is simply a by product of the chilling process and not something the commercials are actually seeking to take out of the beer. Googling is still no match for experience IMHO. I wouldn't mind betting close to 100% of the Yay sayers have and do practice and a vast majority of the Nay sayers have not. Having never tried it, I sat on the fence until recently, my last 2 brews HB and all into FV are both pearlers.

 

[Parks]

Yes, but it still remains that excess trub can cause astringency problems. If you're not having this problem, then 'as you were'.
As a side note, there's even more crap to separate, if harvesting yeast slurry.

I still think its wasted as you can get clear beer with vitamin T anyway.

What I said had nothing to do with astringency or the effects of carrying hot break into the fermenter. It was simply stating that the brewbrite should still have a clearing effect on the beer in the fermenter.

I personally keep as much hot break and other rubbish in the kettle as possible as it's considered best practice.

 

[mckenry]

What I said had nothing to do with astringency or the effects of carrying hot break into the fermenter. It was simply stating that the brewbrite should still have a clearing effect on the beer in the fermenter.

I personally keep as much hot break and other rubbish in the kettle as possible as it's considered best practice.

I see now Parks. From the replies to replies, it turns out I thought you were Cosmic Bertie. Just thought it was the same person replying to my response to them.
Confusing hey?

 

[Parks]

I see now Parks. From the replies to replies, it turns out I thought you were Cosmic Bertie. Just thought it was the same person replying to my response to them.
Confusing hey?

Indeed

 

[mckenry]

It seems no matter how much you research there are 2 camps re hot break into FV. A recent search suggested the HB is simply a by product of the chilling process and not something the commercials are actually seeking to take out of the beer. Googling is still no match for experience IMHO. I wouldn't mind betting close to 100% of the Yay sayers have and do practice and a vast majority of the Nay sayers have not. Having never tried it, I sat on the fence until recently, my last 2 brews HB and all into FV are both pearlers.

I agree there is no replacement for experience. If your beers are turning out spectacular, then, as I say, 'As you were'
My personality generally requires me to accept the teachings of the learned. Thats what I learnt, and thats what I do.
Experimenting with variables is my thing, not experimenting with process.

Now I just want to pose some genuine questions. No sarcasm meant.
If all the kettle trub was fine to make it to the fermenter, why are there hop screens, pick-ups bent to the side, bazookas etc?
Why do breweries bother separating if thats another time and cost?
Who decided excess trub (and surely all kettle trub would be considered excess) causes astringancy? Surely they tried before stating.

I didnt google for my answer, I googled for the post I knew I had read, where Thirsty stated leave the hot break out.