KegLand Questions and Answers

[Malchizedec]

Hi micm66

They are currently short staffed so are taking longer than usual to respond to emails, have you tried calling?

 

[Meddo]

Hi, what's the chemical resistance like of your inline regulators? Specifically caustic beer line cleaner and phosphoric-based sanitiser? I want to do a precautionary flush of my reg board due to some mould in my kegerator while some of the regs weren't connected (open to atmosphere), the materials listed look like they should be fine but would like to check first please.

Duotight Inline In Line Regulator - With integrated gauge for water or gas - 8mm (5/16

Thank you

 

[shmick]

Has anybody managed to calibrate their rapt chamber to their pill?

My pill consistently reads 2degC higher than the set/profile temperature. (ie chamber set at 20C, pill data shows steady 22C, chamber air temp varying up/down per cycle as expected)

I assume this would require the chamber calibration to be changed to match the pill output?
If you can do this, how hard would it be swapping back and forth for pill/no pill use?

 

[KegLand-com-au]

@KegLand-com-au Are you close to releasing the mini tap?

The mini taps will come in several different shipments.

We will have the Nukatap Mini tap only arrive into stock in about 4 weeks.

With regards to the shanks we have several different shank options:
Shank 1(due beginning of March some time): This connects directly to a duotight ball lock disconnect 8mm (5/16"). The best one to use this shank with is the duotight ball lock disconnect with flow control.
Shank 2(due in about June): This shank is the shank that is used to mount the tap to a fridge door/keezer/esky etc. This particular shank will accept 8mm(5/16) OD tubing and the tubing will push directly into the shank.
Shank 3(due in about June): This shank is the shank that is used to mount the tap to a fridge door/keezer/esky etc. This particular shank will accept 6.35mm(1/4) OD tubing and the tubing will push directly into the shank.

Then we will have other accessories due to arrive at a later stage after this such as different nozzels etc.

 

[sixfignig]

@KegLand-com-au Any news on when N2 cylinders arriving? Very keen to get a Nitro coffee setup going.

 

[Coalface]

Have managed to link the Brewzilla to Brewfather via the webhook, just wondering if there is any information on the planned level of integration, currently I can only add a device to a batch at the fermentation tab of brewfather, there is no option for the brewing tab.

Also, hoping to get a brew done this weekend, so while the BZ100 profile is absent from the equipment profiles in Brewfather, could you provide a screen shot of the inputs you've been using (assuming you have created a custom profile for it)?

anyway, was very impressed by the remote operation through the rapt portal and the machine itself also looks fantastic in the home brewery, thanks again guys, great work!

Hey guys, sorry to keep bothering you... do you have an ETA on the Brewzilla profile for the 100L I'm reluctant to brew a big batch without all the inputs for fear of messing up recipes.... would really appreciate if you could provide these in the meantime.

 

[Bark0s]

Has anybody managed to calibrate their rapt chamber to their pill?

My pill consistently reads 2degC higher than the set/profile temperature. (ie chamber set at 20C, pill data shows steady 22C, chamber air temp varying up/down per cycle as expected)

I assume this would require the chamber calibration to be changed to match the pill output?
If you can do this, how hard would it be swapping back and forth for pill/no pill use?

I believe the chamber calibration is only possible using the temperature probe, which you need to purchase separately. Early RAPT chamber vids showed how to do it...but definitely had the corded probe.

I guess you could do the pill in the same liquid at the same time.

 

[shmick]

I believe the chamber calibration is only possible using the temperature probe, which you need to purchase separately. Early RAPT chamber vids showed how to do it...but definitely had the corded probe.

I guess you could do the pill in the same liquid at the same time.

I've looked further into it and you can calibrate the chamber with the inbuilt NTC probe (it pops out of the side on wires) but it has no effect on the Pill temperature reported.
My chamber actively maintains a 1.8 degC offset above what ever the set temperature is when using the Pill as the primary source.
If you chill, it will stop the compressor above the set point and if you are heating it keeps the heater on above the set point too.

It has been suggested elsewhere it could be due to the wort being warmer than the inside of the Pill during active fermentation or the Pill's internal temperature being raised due to the power dissipation of the electronics. I can't see this making sense as the chamber should act to achieve the set temperature of the Pill's internal sensor regardless of what is happening outside it.

It would be nice to see if anyone else can replicate this or it is just my unit.

 

[Dpack]

Hey guys, sorry to keep bothering you... do you have an ETA on the Brewzilla profile for the 100L I'm reluctant to brew a big batch without all the inputs for fear of messing up recipes.... would really appreciate if you could provide these in the meantime.

Hey Coalface. Can you please let us know your thoughts on the system when you have given it some decent use? Cheers

 

[KegLand-com-au]

Hey guys, sorry to keep bothering you... do you have an ETA on the Brewzilla profile for the 100L I'm reluctant to brew a big batch without all the inputs for fear of messing up recipes.... would really appreciate if you could provide these in the meantime.

I will follow this up and get Thomas from Brewfater to priorities this. Sorry about the long wait.

 

[KegLand-com-au]

I've looked further into it and you can calibrate the chamber with the inbuilt NTC probe (it pops out of the side on wires) but it has no effect on the Pill temperature reported.
My chamber actively maintains a 1.8 degC offset above what ever the set temperature is when using the Pill as the primary source.
If you chill, it will stop the compressor above the set point and if you are heating it keeps the heater on above the set point too.

It has been suggested elsewhere it could be due to the wort being warmer than the inside of the Pill during active fermentation or the Pill's internal temperature being raised due to the power dissipation of the electronics. I can't see this making sense as the chamber should act to achieve the set temperature of the Pill's internal sensor regardless of what is happening outside it.

It would be nice to see if anyone else can replicate this or it is just my unit.

The two different devices use different hardware. The pill uses a onboard digital temperature probe that is quite accurate so it's unlikely that the pill requires calibration. With that said if you have just charged the battery the heat of the charging process can make the pill warm up slightly. Also you should be aware that during active fermentation it's normal for the core temp of the fermenter to warm up and be higher than the ambient Fermentaion Chamber temperature.

So when you say "calibrate the pill with the Chamber" this is not normally the process. Normally if you want to calibrate the chamber you would do this by using a separate temperature probe. The calibration process for the RAPT Fermentation Chamber, The RAPT Temp Controller, and also the RAPT BrewZilla Gen 4 is all the same. All these devices use an NTC thermistor and we use this algorithm to calculate the beta for the particular temperature/resistance curve:
NTC Thermistors - Calculate Beta Values | Ametherm

As you can see we need both the high(T2) and low(T1) point to determine the calibration. So without saving both the high and low point the algorithm will not be updated and only an offset can be used. So if you are going to do calibration always make sure to calibrate at least 2 points as this will greatly improve accuracy.

In addition to this it's best if you calibrate the temperatures in the range that you are using them. For instance if you are using your Fermentation chamber at 0-35C then you will get the highest level of accuracy if you perform the calibration with T1 at 0C and the T2 at 35C.

Typically with the BrewZilla most people are using this from 60C and up to 100C so best to do the calibration process at 60C for T1 and 100C for T2.

Does that make sense?

NOTE: T1 and T2 in the back end are calculated in Kelvin but from your point of view they are in C just to make it less complicated for you I have just said Celsius above.

 

[KegLand-com-au]

I've looked further into it and you can calibrate the chamber with the inbuilt NTC probe (it pops out of the side on wires) but it has no effect on the Pill temperature reported.
My chamber actively maintains a 1.8 degC offset above what ever the set temperature is when using the Pill as the primary source.
If you chill, it will stop the compressor above the set point and if you are heating it keeps the heater on above the set point too.

It has been suggested elsewhere it could be due to the wort being warmer than the inside of the Pill during active fermentation or the Pill's internal temperature being raised due to the power dissipation of the electronics. I can't see this making sense as the chamber should act to achieve the set temperature of the Pill's internal sensor regardless of what is happening outside it.

It would be nice to see if anyone else can replicate this or it is just my unit.

That is correct. The two devices are calibrated separately. The pill needs to be calibrated when the pill is in access point mode. As mentioned above it's highly unlikely you need to calibrate the pill so I really do not think this is necessary but if you do it's in the AP mode. The pill only has a single point calibration method that takes into account an offset. Once this calibration has been done the pill will send the new "calibrated" number in the bluetooth beacons.

The RAPT fermentaiton chamber and RAPT temp controller will grab this beacon and simply relay this to the web.

The reason that we do not make the calibration on the RAPT fermentation chamber or RAPT temp controller is that you would end up with a double calibration event with one figure essentially putting out the other figure. Also one pill can also be paired with multiple other RAPT devices so this would also create other undesirable results. As a result you have to calibrate each product separately.

I would not bother taking the power dissipation of the electronics in the pill into account. Definitely the pill is warmer once it's just taken off the charge and also once it's immediately thrown into the fermenter. With that said after the pill goes into the fermenter for some hours it will go into "low power mode" and this really creates no significant heat at all.

If you are seeing hotter pill temp than the fridge air temp it is always always caused by the NTC probe on the chamber not being calibrated or alternatively due to head of the fermentation process. I would wait til fermentation slows down a lot and if you see the two numbers get closer then it's more likely that it's just active fermentation making the wort warmer.

If you get to the end of the fermentation process and the pill and chamber still has a different temp that is not getting closer together then I would say you need to calibrate the NTC probe in the chamber or temp controller.

 

[Zgavrilovic]

Any updates on SS Fermzilla?

 

[Its_damo_t]

@KegLand-com-au What happened to the Low volume CIP spray rotor? Has it been in stock and I just missed it? or is it still being tweaked?

 

[huez]

@KegLand-com-au any update on the next gen tri Conical with the new collection jar? I've see a couple of photos floating around so assume it's close?

 

[sixfignig]

@KegLand-com-au Any news on when N2 cylinders arriving? Very keen to get a Nitro coffee setup going.

@KegLand-com-au

 

[Gollywog]

@KegLand-com-au

Also keen.

 

[shmick]

That is correct. The two devices are calibrated separately. The pill needs to be calibrated when the pill is in access point mode. As mentioned above it's highly unlikely you need to calibrate the pill so I really do not think this is necessary but if you do it's in the AP mode. The pill only has a single point calibration method that takes into account an offset. Once this calibration has been done the pill will send the new "calibrated" number in the bluetooth beacons.

The RAPT fermentaiton chamber and RAPT temp controller will grab this beacon and simply relay this to the web.

The reason that we do not make the calibration on the RAPT fermentation chamber or RAPT temp controller is that you would end up with a double calibration event with one figure essentially putting out the other figure. Also one pill can also be paired with multiple other RAPT devices so this would also create other undesirable results. As a result you have to calibrate each product separately.

I would not bother taking the power dissipation of the electronics in the pill into account. Definitely the pill is warmer once it's just taken off the charge and also once it's immediately thrown into the fermenter. With that said after the pill goes into the fermenter for some hours it will go into "low power mode" and this really creates no significant heat at all.

If you are seeing hotter pill temp than the fridge air temp it is always always caused by the NTC probe on the chamber not being calibrated or alternatively due to head of the fermentation process. I would wait til fermentation slows down a lot and if you see the two numbers get closer then it's more likely that it's just active fermentation making the wort warmer.

If you get to the end of the fermentation process and the pill and chamber still has a different temp that is not getting closer together then I would say you need to calibrate the NTC probe in the chamber or temp controller.

Thanks for the reply. I really appreciate the help sorting this out.

I understand all you are saying so I'll explain it the way I see it:

- My chamber will not maintain the temperature I set when using the Pill as the temperature source.

- When I set the temperature to 20degC I expect the chamber to adjust it's temperature (heat/cool as required) to keep the internal sensor of the Pill at 20degC. Nothing else should matter.

- My chamber mistakenly keeps the temperature 2 degC higher at 22degC. I have physically watched the chamber heat and cool at the wrong trigger points to maintain this error.

My Pill is accurate (measured).
My chamber runs accurately when run on the NTC sensor (measured and recalibrated)
This 2degC offset happens over an entire 2 week ferment profile. (currently cold crashed set to -2degC and maintaining 0degC).

All of the suggestions so far will only effect the rate at which the temperature achieves it's set equilibrium - not the final temperature which is where I have the problem.

I strongly believe there is a mismatch in the data value given by the Pill to what the chamber processes and acts upon.
Not sure what side the error is on and doesn't mater to me. I was hoping a simple offset option could fix it. (I'm sorry I referred to it as calibrating the Pill to the chamber)

At the end of the day I can create a profile that is 2 degC colder for all steps or run an external NTC in a thermowell but being an experienced design engineer and brewer myself I find work-arounds a bit annoying when things are close to being a great product.

Thanks

 

[KegLand-com-au]

@KegLand-com-au What happened to the Low volume CIP spray rotor? Has it been in stock and I just missed it? or is it still being tweaked?

Yes sorry about the long wait. The changes we made really set us back quite a bit so we are likely to get stock at the end of March now.

 

[KegLand-com-au]

Any updates on SS Fermzilla?

Yes this is almost finished. The lid was a bit too tight fitting and was a bit difficult to push in and out of the fermenter. As a result we are making a new injection mold for the lid seal. I think this new injection mold will be finished in about 3-4 weeks and after this we will hopefully finish the final testing on the unit. Based on this the release date will probably be about May.