Kegarator X 4Tap Build (Will it ever happen?)

[vk4akp]

Hi guys, so new here.

I have finally decided to bite the bullet and go from bottling to kegging.
I have looked at a few suppliers and have decided (Unless persuaded otherwise) to go with an online
@KegLand-com-au order.

I have a few generic questions but probably the biggest one is...

Will this ever Happen?? - So far I sit and wait checking my Cart daily. But sure enough items come up as out of stock so I wait. But as one comes back into stock another disappears. Currently as of today I see two items out of stock in my cart with the longest wait now being the 25th January for the Series 4 Regulators.
(I started building this order list some weeks ago)

So here is my list of items to order.

KegLand-Order-1-2020-01-11_143432

• vk4akp
• 11/1/20

Parts list for a potential Kerarator X 4Tap build.

My aim is the following.

- Build a 4 Tap Kegarator X system.
- 4 Keg's initially. 1. Soda Water Keg, 2. Normal Beer Keg, 3. Ginger Beer Keg. 4. Swap Keg for 2 & 3 as needed. (Eventually I will buy extra Keg's, a half size Keg for portable use, a second CO2 Bottle, & other sundry bits as funds allow).

So Questions.
Discount Vouchers & Sales?
I had initially hoped to limit the build costs to $1000. As I looked into things further dropping items and adding items this then started to climb to $1500 and now sits a little over $1600. As I'm forced to wait anyhow for stock availability I am wondering if there are any best times to buy for sales or if discount vouchers ever happen?

Have I missed anything?
I want to go with MFL connectors. Also having 2x Ball Lock disconnects on the back of the fridge so the CO2 bottles and lines can be easily disconnected for other uses. 3x Duotight one way check valves (for 2 - CO2 in Lines + the Water in Line). Water pressure regulator. 6 Way Manifold splitter will sit inside the fridge. Return springs for taps. Short Ball Tap Handles as extras. Extra Gas line in 4&5mm. Extra Ball Lock Disconnects for making Keg to Keg filling cables etc.

General Questions?
1 Regulator Included?
7 in 1 Tool Included?
Font Seal Gasket Included?
I assume one Series 4 CO2 Regulator comes with the KEG MASTER SERIES X - QUADRUPLE TAP KEGERATOR - ( FOUR / 4 ) bundle? It's not listed in the parts list but say "with Regulator" in the title and there's one in a photo shown. However "Regulator" could just refer to the fridges temperature regulator?

Does the Battery add on connector suit Series 4 CO2 Regulators?
(It doesn't say in the description).

Stainless Carbonation & Line Cleaning Cap & FermZilla Cap 's are not Duotight compatible?
(IE. I have to use the Plastic ones?)

How to Clean?
I have bulk Intec potassium metabisulfite & Citric Acid already. Is that OK?

How to Fill the Keg's?
Do I just open the lid and pour straight in from the Fermenter? Won't it froth?

I probably have other questions but that's a good start for now.

Any help or suggestions will be much appreciated.
.-.-.

 

[JDW81]

Hey Mate, welcome aboard and to the wonderful world of kegging.

With respect to what you get with the kegland kegerator you’d be best to direct your questions to them. They may be willing to do a bundle deal to get you set up properly.

The important stuff is:
- fridge
- gas bottle and regulator
- 4 way manifold to split the gas between kegs
- one way valve to stop your beer coming up the gas line and ruining your regulator
- beer/gas line
- liquid and gas disconnects
- push on gas/beer line fittings for disconnects (I use John Guest stuff but plenty of others around) or locking clips
- kegs (ball lock are most commonly used)
- taps and shanks (the shanks may or may not come with the font).
- tool for connecting taps

With respect to cleaning and sanitising:
- cleaning is best done with sodium percarbonate soak/PBW
- sanitise with a no rinse sanitiser of your choice

Filling:
- I use a sanitised piece of silicone hose and fill slowly to prevent excessive foaming/O2 exposure
- pure keg with CO2 before filling (don’t know that this makes much difference really, but I still do it).
- YouTube is your friend, heaps of kegging videos out there.

Carbonation:
- try it to over think it and make it more complicated that necessary
- there’s a few main methods used
1: set at serving pressure (about 12-14 PSI) and leave for 7 days or so. This will give you good carbonation for ales
2: rapid carbonation but setting at high pressure for a few days (do some searches here and you find the info)
3: rocking and rolling method where you pressurise the keg to 40PSI, lay on its side and rock gently back and for (with the gas post upper most). Again, lots of info here which will give you the gist.
- there’ll also be heaps of YouTube stuff on carbonation.

There’s heaps of extra stuff for kegging that isn’t in my list above, that I reckon is unnecessary but feel free to experiment and go with what works for you/is recommended by others. Bear in mind most retailers have a vested interest in selling you extra stuff to make themselves some extra dough so may recommend bits and bobs that many experienced keggers may think isn’t needed.

Good luck with it, it’s a pretty simple process and nice you get it sorted as much easier that bottling.

Cheers,

JD.

 

[vk4akp]

Hi, sorry slow to reply. I read the messages straight away but it's not often I'm near a real keyboard to type.
I'm happy to just do the 7 day slow carbonating.
I'll have to sus out what your cleaning suggestions are on the KegLand website. I take it what I already have isn't suitable.
I did have some limited contact with KegLand via a YouTube post but got your typical "Bunnings" style response. So I get the impression the low margins / prices translate to just work it out for yourself and buy. LoL

---
I would like to get one of these once they have stock of all the bits. I wonder if they'd do me a package deal?


KegLand
2 weeks ago
The deals on the website are already very sharp. Quite a lot of investment has gone into the development of this new model so I am sure you can appreciate this cost money too.
---

So apparently NO they do not offer Discount's even though they have a spot at checkout for Discount Codes. Go figure!
.-.-.

 

[vk4akp]

I found a good video on their website. I'll watch it and learn (Hopefully)
https://www.kegland.com.au/phosphoric-acid-blend-sanitiser-500ml-starsan.html

 

[vk4akp]

OK, So with a bit of extra thought and chatting with some very helpful people I have changed my build to use internal DuoFit Regulators now instead of chaining the bigger more expensive ones on the bottle.
Benefits? >> This has dropped the build costs slightly, all items currently in stock, and probably tidier as everything is in the fridge.

Thoughts?

KegLand-Order-1A-2020-01-18_165329

• vk4akp
• 18/1/20

Revised Order using internal DuoFit Regulators.

 

[vk4akp]

So. Put the order in Sunday.
Day 2 now Tuesday arvo and still showing only "Processing" I'll be very surprised if it doesn't ship today. Everyone else has been talking about 4 hour processing time.
I was hoping to receive within the week but maybe not.
Also did have plans for Friday lunch which may have to be cancelled now depending on delivery expectations.
Fingers crossed. See what happens.

 

[vk4akp]

OK. Another update.
I feel like a bit of a dill doing this as I seem to be posting to myself basically in this thread. LoL.
But hopefully it will be handy for others later.

So The following Tuesday after the Australia Day long weekend my order finally arrives at about 11:30AM.
The courier was pretty good. He instantly pointed out one of the boxes totally ripped down one corner showing all the items just floating around inside (No packaging, just thrown in the box). DuoTight connectors, sodastream ball lock caps, delicate mini Co2 Gauge, etc everything just all loose floating around inside.

Surprisingly other then 5 incorrectly sent items it was all basically there.

However the fridge was dinted in on both sides. (I'll talk about this later).
Also one keg dinted quiet badly at the base. (I do wonder about the quality of these. I have nothing to compare but the sides seem quiet thin and the welding in places quiet nasty).

So after a few phone calls and emails replacements are on their way. ETA some time this week.
(I have also posted back the wrong items and dinted Keg).

Now on to the fridge. This is my biggest disappointment. I have decided I am basically stuck with it. It is not worth trying again with the company as others have reported repeated and worse results. Some of the pictures I have seen online many have ended up with far worse damage. This basically should not be happening. so why is it?

The Company staff are quick to site poor courier practices. However I disagree.
The fridges suffer damage for two obvious reasons.
1. There is not enough structural support in the design at the rear base corners either side of the motor cavity.
2. The thin Styrofoam base packaging is far from adequate.

Although only 40+ odd Kilo's the item is awkward enough that one person trying to move it around is likely to do the typical walking of the box from corner to corner to manoeuvre it. Also when coming down out of the truck the slightest impact on a back corner will likely ripple the sides.
The second the fridge is delivered the tell tail signs are diagonal creases across the base corners of the box and snapped corners on the barely 1 & 1/2 inches of Styrofoam that is supposed to protect the base.

Will this ever be addressed? Doubtful.
The canned response from the staff interaction is generally to blame courier care or built and delivered for a price. One stating that "If you want better expect a +$300 price hike".
At one point someone did suggest that the issue was well known and should have been addressed during the Series 4 to Series X redesign. As specially given how much it cost to have this done. (Finally some honesty).

OK so that out of the way some good points.
I have now dealt with numerous staff via phone and email.
All have been extremely polite. Given they are obviously very busy with orders I certainly can't complain on how quickly they answer calls and the time and effort they put into trying to maintain satisfaction is A1.
On two occasions I have had to chase them to get results but instead of passing the buck I found staff simply pick up the slack and action anything missed or forgotten by another. Another huge tick there!.
Given that their pricing just can't be beaten I would suggest stick with smaller items nothing larger then fermenters or kegs and certainly be prepared to do returns on kegs etc on occasion. (I had 1 out of 4 damaged so 75% success rate).

Once my replacement items arrive this week I will start on the build and post questions and results.
.-.-.

 

[fdsaasdf]

Now on to the fridge. This is my biggest disappointment. I have decided I am basically stuck with it. It is not worth trying again with the company as others have reported repeated and worse results. Some of the pictures I have seen online many have ended up with far worse damage. This basically should not be happening. so why is it?

The Company staff are quick to site poor courier practices. However I disagree.
The fridges suffer damage for two obvious reasons.
1. There is not enough structural support in the design at the rear base corners either side of the motor cavity.
2. The thin Styrofoam base packaging is far from adequate.

Although only 40+ odd Kilo's the item is awkward enough that one person trying to move it around is likely to do the typical walking of the box from corner to corner to manoeuvre it. Also when coming down out of the truck the slightest impact on a back corner will likely ripple the sides.
The second the fridge is delivered the tell tail signs are diagonal creases across the base corners of the box and snapped corners on the barely 1 & 1/2 inches of Styrofoam that is supposed to protect the base.

Will this ever be addressed? Doubtful.
The canned response from the staff interaction is generally to blame courier care or built and delivered for a price. One stating that "If you want better expect a +$300 price hike".
At one point someone did suggest that the issue was well known and should have been addressed during the Series 4 to Series X redesign. As specially given how much it cost to have this done. (Finally some honesty)..

Well, I'm sorry to hear that, you shouldn't be left with a damaged fridge and no compensation, regardless of the retailer. Could you upload some pics to show the damage?

There is an Australian Consumer Law handbook example that fits your exact scenario, which I'd encourage you to point out to the retailer to ensure they exchange it or compensate you appropriately.

Products damaged on arrival If a consumer finds their new electrical or whitegoods product damaged on arrival, it may not meet the consumer guarantee of acceptable quality. ‘Acceptable quality’ means a reasonable consumer, fully aware of the products’ condition (including any defects), would find them: > fit for all the purposes for which products of that kind are commonly supplied > acceptable in appearance and finish > free from defects > safe > durable.

Depending on the type of damage, products that arrive damaged may not meet these tests. The consumer may be entitled to a remedy.

Example: A consumer went to a store to purchase a new refrigerator. The cost included delivery by the supplier. On delivery of the new fridge, the consumer noticed its door handle was broken. He contacted the supplier, who said the damage must have occurred in transit and was not a fault with the product. Nevertheless, the supplier had an obligation under the consumer guarantees to supply a product of acceptable quality

https://www.accc.gov.au/system/file...stry guide to the Australian Consumer Law.pdf​

 

[mongey]

Sounds like a terrible experience with Kegland. I’m actually starting to plan my move from bottles to kegs. Think I’ll stay away from them.

 

[vk4akp]

Don't get me wrong, they are more then happy to try again with a return and re-shipment.
However there is enough feedback on the net from other customers to suggest I would be playing Russian Roulette and am far better off just wearing it and moving forward.
The damage is basically a foot or so radius from the rear bottom corners. On one side you can paddle it in and out like one of Rolf Harris's wobble boards by touching it with your finger. (Tie Me Kegerator Down Sport)..
I've run the fridge for a day and a night and it still seems to function OK.
However I was schooled by one of the staff to check for no heat on each side while running.
It seems that they are very aware of this "supposed" 1% issue with damages enough to know what to look for as far as not functioning once arriving smashed.

 

[fdsaasdf]

Ok, seems odd to me. If I was in your shoes there is no way I'd accept that outcome. If it was delivered damaged a second time, it would be picked up again in return for a refund.

Hopefully you're happy with everything once you get it all set up.

 

[Blackman]

Yep.
20-20 hindsight is great, but as soon as the driver pointed out the damaged carton you should have not accepted the delivery. The responsibility then falls on the courier company to resolve the issue with the sender (and explain the cartons were damaged in transit) you then get new items.
However I had a similar situation where I purchased a 519ltr chest freezer from Harvey N, and paid for delivery, we were not home when it was delivered so could not inspect. There were obvious sighs of damage so I took photos of it all as I opened it. More damage to the internal foam/plywood packaging. Found that the freezer rocked back and forth on opposite corners like it was twisted. It had obviously been dropped on one corner. So after some emails we received a new freezer from Fisher and P, through a third-party authorized agent (because Harvey N, would not handle the claim!).
In short "the squeaky wheel gets the grease"
I'd be pushing for a new one.

 

[CKK]

Yep.
20-20 hindsight is great, but as soon as the driver pointed out the damaged carton you should have not accepted the delivery. The responsibility then falls on the courier company to resolve the issue with the sender (and explain the cartons were damaged in transit) you then get new items.
However I had a similar situation where I purchased a 519ltr chest freezer from Harvey N, and paid for delivery, we were not home when it was delivered so could not inspect. There were obvious sighs of damage so I took photos of it all as I opened it. More damage to the internal foam/plywood packaging. Found that the freezer rocked back and forth on opposite corners like it was twisted. It had obviously been dropped on one corner. So after some emails we received a new freezer from Fisher and P, through a third-party authorized agent (because Harvey N, would not handle the claim!).
In short "the squeaky wheel gets the grease"
I'd be pushing for a new one.

It is a real problem to get stuff delivered without damage but on the other hand it’s also in the interest of the supplier to look at the long term gain of having a happy end user rather than a disgruntled one. At Keg King we basically take it on the chin and if there is damage try to get something back from the couriers. Mostly that does not work because courier companies have a myriad of ways of distancing themselves when this happens. So it means we end up out of pocket but at least our reputation as a supplier is kept intact and clients can deal confidently with us in the future. That is worth more than the short term gain in not having to supply replacement. In addition we also try to ensure the packaging is adequate and fit for purpose. Our bigger fridges now come packed in wooden boxes for example and they are far more robust than cardboard with styrofoam.

 

[vk4akp]

OK. A few points here.
- I did ask before delivery on their forum as to what the best procedure was with accepting delivery.
I did suggest that maybe I should open all items in front of the driver and to refuse to receive it if it was damaged.
I didn't get an answer to this. The answer was something to the effect of wait till you get your first order before judging us.
Well my fears were confirmed it seems. If I had of seen the posts from others dealing with same first I probably wouldn't have ordered.
- As for why not return it. Well I've already explained that. Only today am I finally receiving the missing and damaged items.
I am yet to inspect the keg but the cartoon looks OK.
I'm not going through all the drama of trying to repackage and return the bulky fridge. Should I receive another damaged one or worse a worse damaged one this could go on for weeks.
I basically want to get the thing assembled and then start getting beer on tap. This also is still weeks away by the time I put another brew on set everything up and sterilise and slow carbonate etc.
- I do not believe the couriers are in any way or form responsible for the damage. The fault is in the structural design of the product and lack of sufficient packaging protection.
- I did briefly look at Keg King but from memory I liked the Kegerator X more for many reasons. I think it was partly price.
I've already gone way over budget so Kegland does seem to have an excellent price point.

 

[KegLand-com-au]

Yep.
20-20 hindsight is great, but as soon as the driver pointed out the damaged carton you should have not accepted the delivery. The responsibility then falls on the courier company to resolve the issue with the sender (and explain the cartons were damaged in transit) you then get new items.
However I had a similar situation where I purchased a 519ltr chest freezer from Harvey N, and paid for delivery, we were not home when it was delivered so could not inspect. There were obvious sighs of damage so I took photos of it all as I opened it. More damage to the internal foam/plywood packaging. Found that the freezer rocked back and forth on opposite corners like it was twisted. It had obviously been dropped on one corner. So after some emails we received a new freezer from Fisher and P, through a third-party authorized agent (because Harvey N, would not handle the claim!).
In short "the squeaky wheel gets the grease"
I'd be pushing for a new one.

With regards to any products purchased directly from KegLand we back up our products with back to base warranty and I would be surprised if this is not what has been offered.

With warranty the procedure is:

1. Determine what the issue is so we can validate if it's actually a warranty issue or not. In the case of physical damage sending a photo by email will suffice. As you have pointed out dealing with one person over email is the easiest method. As soon as you call every day and speak to a new representative you might have to explain the story from the beginning again so I would suggest sending an email with photos that describe the issue, include order number and your best return contact details then wait for a response.

2. Once the problem has been determined we will generally give you a number of different options for a product that has been damaged in transit:
a) send back for replacement (we will cover the entire cost for postage so you are not out of pocket)
b) send back for refund (we will cover the entire cost for postage so you are not out of pocket)
c) keep the product at a discount
d) organise local repair (this can not always be done so it's not always offered as a solution)

None of these options are at the cost to the buyer. With large items such as kegerators the main complication with a) and b) is getting the product picked up by the courier from the customers house. Although this sounds simply it's quite often the case that the courier doesn't arrive exactly at the time of the booking and/or the actual customer is not home when the driver arrives. So it's this type of missed pickup is generally the most difficult part of getting a product returned to us for warranty. With that said if customers are able to simply drop the fridge off to a local freight depot (of which there are about 50 across Australia) this greatly increases the speed that the goods get back to us for processing refund/replacement. So if you are the type of customer that has a car and would be able to drop the freight to one of these sites this is by far the fastest way to get a warranty claim moving rather than us sending the courier out to your house to pickup the goods.

 

[vk4akp]

Yep. I'd totally agree with whats written above.
Pretty much exactly as I experienced it.
On a positive note I just opened the replacement Keg and it looks to be undamaged.
So there are now 4 Keg's sitting in the fridge waiting for me to pull my finger out and fill them.

I should say again I have no qualms with the staff interaction throughout the whole process. They acted professionally and politely consistently and I have dealt with 4 different people to date and they were all good.

However these forums are here for many reasons. Not only for help but also information on other peoples experiences including ordering. So I'm sure you understand that the right thing to do is to report ones experiences be they good, bad, or mixed to help others to come.

No hard feelings and I have already started to load my cart ready for the next order awaiting restocking of Sanatizer, and your new Sodastream regulator. I believe my cart currently sits at ~$500+ so you still have a repeat customer.
.-.-.

 

[Mattym]

Yep. I'd totally agree with whats written above.
Pretty much exactly as I experienced it.
On a positive note I just opened the replacement Keg and it looks to be undamaged.
So there are now 4 Keg's sitting in the fridge waiting for me to pull my finger out and fill them.

I should say again I have no qualms with the staff interaction throughout the whole process. They acted professionally and politely consistently and I have dealt with 4 different people to date and they were all good.

However these forums are here for many reasons. Not only for help but also information on other peoples experiences including ordering. So I'm sure you understand that the right thing to do is to report ones experiences be they good, bad, or mixed to help others to come.

No hard feelings and I have already started to load my cart ready for the next order awaiting restocking of Sanatizer, and your new Sodastream regulator. I believe my cart currently sits at ~$500+ so you still have a repeat customer.
.-.-.

Hi vk4akp,

Sorry to hear you got damaged items after so much faffing around. I had the exact same experience - kegerator box ripped with the fridge damaged and one of my kegs dinged. I called Kegland whilst the courier was still there and they couldn’t have been more helpful - I was offered a replacement or discount if I took the damaged goods. I took the discount on the basis I could still return if the fridge died. If you’ve not already resolved your fridge issue, keep at it - I’m sure the guys will sort you out for not going through the hassle of replacing.

cheers!

 

[vk4akp]

Hi @Mattym

Yes it's not a good feeling is it. It's a shame they don't have local outlets it's always a worry buying site unseen with certain items. Sorry to hear you went through similar.

We did discuss compensation for my troubles on the first phone call. I suggested a discount voucher for future orders but was told they were strictly taboo and that couldn't happen.

I was told I would receive some free items for my troubles. I tried to offer suggestions on some simple things that may have helped with my build but was once again told that I would just get what ever cheap things they had laying around at the time that they were allowed to send. Sounds like margins are pretty tight there so staff are really collared hard as to what they can do.

In the end I was sent the replacement missing items and a replacement Keg + the following PR items for my troubles including smashed fridge.

4x $1 Tap return springs.
1x $4 Push in Growler spout.
1x Free - KegLand Bumper Sticker (To help promote their excellent business)

Hopefully you did at least as well?
.-.-.

Hi vk4akp,

Sorry to hear you got damaged items after so much faffing around. I had the exact same experience - kegerator box ripped with the fridge damaged and one of my kegs dinged. I called Kegland whilst the courier was still there and they couldn’t have been more helpful - I was offered a replacement or discount if I took the damaged goods. I took the discount on the basis I could still return if the fridge died. If you’ve not already resolved your fridge issue, keep at it - I’m sure the guys will sort you out for not going through the hassle of replacing.

cheers!

 

[Blackman]

It is a real problem to get stuff delivered without damage but on the other hand it’s also in the interest of the supplier to look at the long term gain of having a happy end user rather than a disgruntled one. At Keg King we basically take it on the chin and if there is damage try to get something back from the couriers. Mostly that does not work because courier companies have a myriad of ways of distancing themselves when this happens. So it means we end up out of pocket but at least our reputation as a supplier is kept intact and clients can deal confidently with us in the future. That is worth more than the short term gain in not having to supply replacement. In addition we also try to ensure the packaging is adequate and fit for purpose. Our bigger fridges now come packed in wooden boxes for example and they are far more robust than cardboard with styrofoam.

Interesting..... several years ago I purchased a used/imported 19ltr keg from you guys (supposedly pressure tested) and when I tried to use it the first time found it had a pinhole in the bottom where the dip tube had rubbed.
Your staff told me nothing could be done about it other than returning it and having it welded at a charge of $40!

Anyway vk4akp it sounds like you are happy with the outcome that is the main thing.
Good luck with your build, hopefully the rest goes smoothly. [emoji482]

 

[CKK]

Interesting..... several years ago I purchased a used/imported 19ltr keg from you guys (supposedly pressure tested) and when I tried to use it the first time found it had a pinhole in the bottom where the dip tube had rubbed.
Your staff told me nothing could be done about it other than returning it and having it welded at a charge of $40!

Anyway vk4akp it sounds like you are happy with the outcome that is the main thing.
Good luck with your build, hopefully the rest goes smoothly. [emoji482]

If it was a bit over two years ago then Keg King was being managed by the two people who now run Kegland. One of the things I stopped was selling used kegs precisely because it’s hard to warranty such items.