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Just Juice Cider

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Pumpy

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I saw three litre bottles of just juice on special in WW for $2.50 so I bought 8 bottles, I used a liquid ale yeast and the juice it SG was about 50 .I beat some air into it
The temp in the garage has been 10-14C and it is fermenting nicely .

It was a bit of a gamble , I picked the Apple and pear as the Strongbow cider uses about 10% pear juice this will have a bit more .

Has anyone ever tried using these juices for cider if so am I heading for disaster or sucess .

I used the ale yeast as I hear that using a champagne yeast ferments right out and I wanted to get some residual sugars .

Cider is all my missus drinks .

Pumpy
 

warrenlw63

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G'day Pumpy!

Did exactly the same thing a couple of years ago. Think Big W were selling 2lt bottles of apple juice for $2.50. Thought it was a bargain. Juice claimed to have no preservatives. So I made myself some cider.

One thing you will notice straight away in the finished cider is how dry it is. Probably too dry to be deemed pleasant. Final gravity wound up around the same as water. I used some recultured Coopers Sparkling Ale yeast.

Best way around all this I found was to buy some apple juice concentrate. I used some of this to prime with. I also would add a teaspoon to the glass every time I cracked a bottle. This sweetened it and made it more bearable.

Best thing you can hope for Pumpy is to use a low attenuating yeast.

Warren -
 

AndrewQLD

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Hi Pumpy,
I did the same about a year ago and ejoyed the cider very much, as Warren said, it did ferment very low (1.002) but I like a dry cider so wasn't too worried, not much apple flavor as such, but I enjoyed it.

Andrew
 

GMK

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Pumpy

Here are some suggestions:
Cut up 12 Granny SMith Apples into quarters - throw them in the primary for 2-3 weeks. This will help with the apple taste.
Prime with Brown Sugar or Dark brown if u prefer.
Could also add some Lactose if the missus prefers it sweeter.

Hope this helps
 

Airgead

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Pumpy said:
I saw three litre bottles of just juice on special in WW for $2.50 so I bought 8 bottles, I used a liquid ale yeast and the juice it SG was about 50 .I beat some air into it
The temp in the garage has been 10-14C and it is fermenting nicely .

It was a bit of a gamble , I picked the Apple and pear as the Strongbow cider uses about 10% pear juice this will have a bit more .

Has anyone ever tried using these juices for cider if so am I heading for disaster or sucess .

I used the ale yeast as I hear that using a champagne yeast ferments right out and I wanted to get some residual sugars .

Cider is all my missus drinks .

Pumpy
[post="61401"][/post]​
Pumpy

There are 2 things you may notice. First, as has been poited out, it will tend to ferment very dry. Traditional cider is fermented very cold (over the winter with fermentation taking up to 6 months) and used a low-attenuation yeast to leave a bit of residual sugar behind. White labs abnd wyeast do a cider yeast that may be wotrth a try. I seem to remember the white labs was quite sulphurous and that took quite a while to clear from the finished cider.

The second thing you may notice is that it isn't nearly as complex as a good cider (it will be more like a crap cider like strongbow). There won't be much apple flavour left. Real cider apples have more acid and tanin which contributes a lot to the finished product. If you use dessert apples (which is what they use for juice) you may need to adjust the acid and maybe add some tanin to get the compelxity. I tend to adjust the acid to about 6ppt as tartaric (same as a dry wine) and add a touch of grape tanin as well. If you have a crab apple tree you can juice them and add that to the cider to improve things.

Cheers
Dave
 

Jim - Perth

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I use the apple/pear juice with Oz-tops. It's dead simple & makes as good (if not better) a cider as you will buy in the bottle shop.
 
J

Jovial_Monk

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An FG of 1002 sounds very low to me. My only cider,pitched with champagne yeast, went from 1076 to 1006. Wonder if the applejuice was sweetened?

Jovial Monk
 

AndrewQLD

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An FG of 1002 sounds very low to me. My only cider,pitched with champagne yeast, went from 1076 to 1006. Wonder if the applejuice was sweetened?
1.006 sounds pretty low too when you started @ 1.076 :p , mine only had an SG of around 1.050 <_< so they seem to be about the same, fermentation-wise.

Andrew
 

Pumpy

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Thanks guys , It seems like you have all had some experience with cider brewing .

Warren if it is too dry do you think I could put some of those sweetex artificial sweetners in ?I used a Wyeast 1318 liquid yeast

Andrew you enjoyed your cider was it strong ?

GMK thank for the apple flavour tip I will do that !

Dave I will get some tannin too I have some tartaric acid , I am on th right track with the cooler fermenting temp !

JM I avoided the Champagne yeast I read it ferments right out

Well I will let you know how it goes
Pumpy
 

Sean

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There are 2 things you may notice. First, as has been poited out, it will tend to ferment very dry. Traditional cider is fermented very cold (over the winter with fermentation taking up to 6 months) and used a low-attenuation yeast to leave a bit of residual sugar behind.
Most traditional cider in England historically has been dry. Current practice amongst trad cider makers is to produce dry cider and then sweeten with artificial sweetners (or sugar if destined for quick consumption). Naturally sweet ciders are difficult to produce and have always been uncommon in England (I only know of two current makers), although much more common in Normandy.

The second thing you may notice is that it isn't nearly as complex as a good cider (it will be more like a crap cider like strongbow). There won't be much apple flavour left. Real cider apples have more acid and tanin which contributes a lot to the finished product.
While real cider apples are used in the West of England, the other traditional cider making part of England - Kent - has always relied on eating and cooking apples.


Note that including some pear juice will help slightly because the sorbitol in pears is not fermentable (assuming it isn't destroyed in processing). Won't help much though.

Anyway, my main point is that producing dry cider and then sweetening it is perfectly normal practice amongst traditional English cidermakers if you can't stomach the proper, unadulterated, stuff. Also, using a dark sugar (normally demerera) is a common tradition amongst Devon ciders in particular, to partially replace some of the flavours lost when the Royal Navy axed the rum ration and cheap rum casks disappeared.

(Not a cider maker myself, but a fan of the traditional farmhouse ciders and perries of the English Westcountry.)
 

Pumpy

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Sean I will try the Demerara for priming GMK mentioned that too thanks Pumpy
 

Sean

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Pumpy said:
Sean I will try the Demerara for priming GMK mentioned that too thanks Pumpy
[post="61508"][/post]​
And don't be afraid to add some more to sweeten it when you come to drink it if necessary. Cider is not beer, and different rules apply.
 

warrenlw63

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Pumpy,

Not sure about artificial sweeteners. They tend to leave a bitter edge. If you get a chance have a wander around your local health food store or health food section of your supermarket. There's an apple juice or pear juice concentrate available. It's in one of those small bottles that look a little like worcestershire sauce bottles. It says on the bottle that it can be used in place of sugar.

I used to just add a teaspoon to the glass of cider. Works roughly like a teaspoon of sugar in terms of sweetness. Pretty potent stuff. :super:

Warren -
 

Sean

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warrenlw63 said:
Pumpy,

Not sure about artificial sweeteners. They tend to leave a bitter edge. If you get a chance have a wander around your local health food store or health food section of your supermarket. There's a apple juice or pear juice concentrate available. It's in one of those small bottles that look a little like worcestershire sauce bottles. It says on the bottle that it can be used in place of sugar.

I used to just add a teaspoon to the glass of cider. Works roughly like a teaspoon of sugar in terms of sweetness. Pretty potent stuff. :super:

Warren -
[post="61516"][/post]​
Sounds ideal.
 

barfridge

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My sewercider came out somewhere around 12%, and the FG was 0.996. Yes, it was very very dry. The other thing to beware of is most ciders go through a secondary malolactic ferment, which gives off horrid flavours and aromas.
 

facter

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Pumpy said:
I saw three litre bottles of just juice on special in WW for $2.50 so I bought 8 bottles, I used a liquid ale yeast and the juice it SG was about 50 .I beat some air into it
The temp in the garage has been 10-14C and it is fermenting nicely .

It was a bit of a gamble , I picked the Apple and pear as the Strongbow cider uses about 10% pear juice this will have a bit more .

Has anyone ever tried using these juices for cider if so am I heading for disaster or sucess .

I used the ale yeast as I hear that using a champagne yeast ferments right out and I wanted to get some residual sugars .

Cider is all my missus drinks .

Pumpy
[post="61401"][/post]​

pumpster...see my cider thread over at grumps - wow, I want to find that deal you got!

It'll ferment right down whether its an ale of champagne yeast..also good to add a tiny bit of grape juice of cut up raisins to give the cider some tannin and body in it - sometimes it can taste a bit thin otherwise. Make sure you have heaps of oxygen in the wort, and it doesnt hurt to add sometimes a bit of yeast nutrient as well.

If you are ever using sugars, always use a brown suger.

Its almoxt impossible to make a true sweet cider unless you are kegging! Then you can add some sorbate to it, kill off the yeast, prime it with some sugar, and carbonate it. There is a sweat mead wyeast that can give good results every so often apparently, but it still ends up a little dry. Everyone swears that this is much better to use for a sweeter cider thant he actual wyeast cider yeast.


As far as artificial sweateners go - add a tiny amount of STEVIA to the bottles wheny ou bottle them. This is not like artificial sweeteners at all, and its a totally natural herb. It doesnt have that horrible wierd taste that other sweeteners have and its great to use!

Another thing - a good cider will take a long time. My recent one was in primary for two weeks,a nd it pays to keep it in secondary for a long time as well - some people leave it for months, but theres no way you want to leave it any less than 3 weeks in secondary, especially if you are using an all-juice recipe... otherwise you run the risk of bottle bombs and over priming the bottles...

I've learnt much about cider lately - this is the next recipe I am formulating:

1 black rock cider kit
4 liters fresh apple juice
2 liters fresh pear juice
700g of brown sugar
100-200g DME pale wheat extract (maybe just 100g, just want a hint of malt in it)
1 cup muscat raisins (this time I'll chop 'em properly- oops)
Wyeast 1368 - yes, thats right, I want to use the Beast with it (I call it the beast after my last wheat brew..woah. fruity - i reckoned this yeast would give a really good result, being so fruity already)....
 

Pumpy

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Thanks Warren will check that out .
Thanks Facter I will check out the Stevia too ,
I have got some good adfvice on this subject from everyone .

Pumpy
 

warrenlw63

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Pumpy,

Good local link with cider info, tips, history and some pretty awesome looking products too. Anybody in SA sampled their wares?

Thorogoods


Warren -
 

Sean

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warrenlw63 said:
Pumpy,

Good local link with cider info, tips, history and some pretty awesome looking products too. Anybody in SA sampled their wares?

Thorogoods


Warren -
[post="61573"][/post]​
We looked in there a couple of months ago. I didn't like their stuff much, but I was under the weather at the time - my wife liked it enough to buy a bottle or two. It's very strong - more apple wine than traditional cider in the English sense.

There is a maker of "Somerset Style" cider on the Calder Highway at Harcourt. Their cider really is very close to traditional Westcountry cider (more Devon than Somerset though). The name escapes me at the moment.
 

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